So I'm a bit confused re: Grendel Accuracy Potential

[DVDVC]

Contemplating my first Grendel build and how much I want to invest in same. I've been browsing a lot of the posts, and must admit to a certain level of confusion. I read where the 6.5G is not competitive for F-class shooting but then is capable of ringing steel at greater than 1000 yds. Some guys seem to get sub- 0.5 MOA groups with mid level builds and others struggle to break 1 MOA with higher end builds. Is it just the shooter's shooting skill or ability to develop accurate handloads?
I don't want to invest in a high end barrel and end up shooting 1.5 MOA, nor do I want to buy an "OK" barrel and shoot 2 MOA. I just finished building a .300 Blackout with a 10.5 in barrel with an Aero Precision upper and lower receiver, it will easily shoot less than 1.5 MOA, probably sub-MOA with proper load development.
I certainly understand the buy once, cry once concept of buying the best gear you can afford, but I want to see some joy after the initial crying!
Just trying to get a feel for reasonable expectations for an accuracy build, as opposed to a hunting or general purpose rig. While most of my shooting will be 200 yds. or less, I want to be able to shoot at least 600 yds. or greater and not be disappointed with my investment.

[JASmith]

The issue with F-Class competition using the Grendel beyond about 600 yards is that higher velocity rounds like the Creedmoor have enough less wind drift that they get a point or two advantage.

That said, the Grendel does indeed produce a lot of fun regardless of the range. Further, one can shoot it a lot more and not get the fatigue from managing the recoil of larger cartridges.

[DVDVC]

I have no doubt it is fun to shoot, I just need to define reasonable accuracy expectations so as to judge how much to invest in my build.

[StoneHendge]

The caliber is no more and no less accurate than any other on the AR-15 platform. Due to the ballistics of the bullet selections, it enables a shooter to hit longer range targets and perform better in wind versus than most AR-15 calibers.

[DVDVC]

Thank you for the reply, but I'm still not sure what is a reasonable expectation on accuracy potential and how much I need to invest to get it. Do I need to invest in a billet receiver and a top shelf barrel to get decent accuracy, or can it be done with a mid range ($300-400) barrel and a good forged receiver, or will a $200 barrel get it done. What do I need to shoot sub-MOA? I know you can't judge how good of a marksman I may or may not be, or my technical ability to properly assemble an AR, or my ability to develop a proper handload, so let's assume I can shoot, reload and assemble an AR without buggering up the job. Is it reasonable to assume that I should be able to assemble an sub-MOA upper and how deep do I need to go to achieve it?

[mdram]

i have an aero receiver, and bartlein barrel
most factory ammo is 1 moa or less
i will start doing load development soon

i have read money should go to
barrel/bolt>glass>trigger/other

[A5BLASTER]

Thank you for the reply, but I'm still not sure what is a reasonable expectation on accuracy potential and how much I need to invest to get it. Do I need to invest in a billet receiver and a top shelf barrel to get decent accuracy, or can it be done with a mid range ($300-400) barrel and a good forged receiver, or will a $200 barrel get it done. What do I need to shoot sub-MOA? I know you can't judge how good of a marksman I may or may not be, or my technical ability to properly assemble an AR, or my ability to develop a proper handload, so let's assume I can shoot, reload and assemble an AR without buggering up the job. Is it reasonable to assume that I should be able to assemble an sub-MOA upper and how deep do I need to go to achieve it?

Ok so you want sub-moa. And you want to hunt with it and play on target say too 600 yards and you want to hold sub-moa to 600 yards.

Spend 500 or more on a custom barrel useing no lower in quiality then criterion and be better to go with bartlein, Krieger or lithia. Top it off with a great scope and great scope mount and a great ar target trigger.

With a well put together and torque balanced rifle that's properly gassed and some good load work up it will give you all the accuracy you could ever want.

Barrel length is up to your specific needs but a 20 to 16 inch will cover out to 600 easily. If you want the most speed you can get go for the 24 inch. If you go with the 24 inch get a nice bullet heavy wall upper to match the long thick heavy profile of the barrel and resist flex during the firing cycle. Lapp the upper and bed the barrel and the rest is on your skills.

Mark at Precision firearms is who I would have do my barrel.

[grayfox]

Thank you for the reply, but I'm still not sure what is a reasonable expectation on accuracy potential and how much I need to invest to get it. Do I need to invest in a billet receiver and a top shelf barrel to get decent accuracy, or can it be done with a mid range ($300-400) barrel and a good forged receiver, or will a $200 barrel get it done. What do I need to shoot sub-MOA? I know you can't judge how good of a marksman I may or may not be, or my technical ability to properly assemble an AR, or my ability to develop a proper handload, so let's assume I can shoot, reload and assemble an AR without buggering up the job. Is it reasonable to assume that I should be able to assemble an sub-MOA upper and how deep do I need to go to achieve it?

I would echo A5, but in addition, accuracy is something only you can define. If you have shot for a while you should know which components are most crucial to achieving same, thus which other ones you can go more economically on.
What are you going to be happy with.
O, one more question I guess I should ask: how many times have you bought/built a rifle and right from the git-go it was sub-moa? If you have done so I imagine it was a quality system with a corresponding $$ tag. Or maybe you were that lucky 1/1000 guy.... either way you probably know the answers you're seeking.
When talking about "how accurate is xyz..." I sometimes think the poster is saying "bring me a rock..." -- that's just me I guess.

[Lemonaid]

I may be off base a bit so welcome corrections if so.
Bargain tier = average 1.5 m.o.a.
Mid tier = average 1.0 m.o.a.
Top tier = average .75 m.o.a.
There are extremes at both ends that may skew this very general categorization. Those with top tier builds chime in if .75 m.o.a. should be a smaller number.

[DVDVC]

Gentlemen, thank you for your more detailed replies. Yes, I kinda knew the answers to my questions, at least in a general sense, but not being all that familiar with the 6.5 Grendel and seeing some contradictory posts on the subject had me second guessing myself. I really like Lemonaid's distilled analysis, thanks! Grayfox, yes, I had to tinker quite a bit to get my Savage 110 .308 to shoot 0.3 MOA. mdram, which Aero receiver did you use?

[DVDVC]

Ok so you want sub-moa. And you want to hunt with it and play on target say too 600 yards and you want to hold sub-moa to 600 yards.

Spend 500 or more on a custom barrel useing no lower in quiality then criterion and be better to go with bartlein, Krieger or lithia. Top it off with a great scope and great scope mount and a great ar target trigger.

With a well put together and torque balanced rifle that's properly gassed and some good load work up it will give you all the accuracy you could ever want.

Barrel length is up to your specific needs but a 20 to 16 inch will cover out to 600 easily. If you want the most speed you can get go for the 24 inch. If you go with the 24 inch get a nice bullet heavy wall upper to match the long thick heavy profile of the barrel and resist flex during the firing cycle. Lapp the upper and bed the barrel and the rest is on your skills.

Mark at Precision firearms is who I would have do my barrel.

A5, do you have an opinion on the Wilson Super Sniper 22in. barrel. Looks like a great buy at $304. I don't think I can justify a $700+ Bartlien, but who knows?

[Klem]

DV,

The Grendel is no more or less potentially accurate at 100M than any other AR calibre. At 600 it's different; wind comes into play and that's where speed and BC influences the outcome, with the shooter's ability to judge and compensate lessening that effect on group size.

If you have a Savage bolt gun then there's another point of difference. Bolt guns will easily outgun AR's for group size, in all calibres. Justifying the loss of accuracy potential is semi-auto firepower and so you have to somehow compare that need/want against the loss of accuracy and decide which is more important.

Grendel was designed to be used in an AR so it makes sense that you don't try and match other calibres that are more suited for other receivers. By that I mean if you want more velocity and start looking for longer barrel then you may as well get an AR10 in a heavier 6.5calibre with a reasonable length barrel than an AR15 Grendel with an overly long, heavy barrel out the front of a light-weight, flexible receiver.

I suggest the following average group size for 4rds out of an AR @ 100;
0.7-0.8MOA for a top-tier barrel (Bartlein, Lilja, Kreiger). Best gun and conditions.
0.9MOA for Tier 2 barrels (e.g. Shilen).
1+MOA for other barrels. It's a lottery and you may get lucky, but more likely not.

This assumes a decent repeatable scope and match trigger.

Lilja and Krieger drop-in's are only $500. Compared to the cost of the rest of the gun including scope the difference between an average and best shooter is nothing - $200. That's the cost of ammunition spent in the first few shooting sessions of frustration.

[DVDVC]

DV,

The Grendel is no more or less potentially accurate at 100M than any other AR calibre. At 600 it's different; wind comes into play and that's where speed and BC influences the outcome, with the shooter's ability to judge and compensate lessening that effect on group size.

If you have a Savage bolt gun then there's another point of difference. Bolt guns will easily outgun AR's for group size, in all calibres. Justifying the loss of accuracy potential is semi-auto firepower and so you have to somehow compare that need/want against the loss of accuracy and decide which is more important.

Grendel was designed to be used in an AR so it makes sense that you don't try and match other calibres that are more suited for other receivers. By that I mean if you want more velocity and start looking for longer barrel then you may as well get an AR10 in a heavier 6.5calibre with a reasonable length barrel than an AR15 Grendel with an overly long, heavy barrel out the front of a light-weight, flexible receiver.

I suggest the following average group size for 4rds out of an AR @ 100;
0.7-0.8MOA for a top-tier barrel (Bartlein, Lilja, Kreiger). Best gun and conditions.
0.9MOA for Tier 2 barrels (e.g. Shilen).
1+MOA for other barrels. It's a lottery and you may get lucky, but more likely not.

This assumes a decent repeatable scope and match trigger.

Lilja and Krieger drop-in's are only $500. Compared to the cost of the rest of the gun including scope the difference between an average and best shooter is nothing - $200. That's the cost of ammunition spent in the first few shooting sessions of frustration.

Klem, thanks for the input. I realize that an AR won't shoot like a bolt gun. I mentioned it only in reply to Grayfox's question of a new gun shooting sub-MOA out of the box. Your reasoning on the cost difference of a top tier barrel makes a lot of sense, but I'd have trouble springing for a $700 Bartlien. Do you have an opinion on the Wilson Super Sniper? Would you consider it a Tier 2 barrel or somewhere in between Top Tier and Tier 2?

[Klem]

I have no experience with Wilson.

If it is not a brand sourced by national shooting teams then it is a risk of a self-inflicted handicap.

[peak98]

I had to tinker quite a bit to get my Savage 110 .308 to shoot 0.3 MOA.