Grendel hunting projectiles.

[Bill Alexander]

Just for those who engage in such discussions.

I would note that the 6.8 crowd are now full of bile that despite piecing together composite picture of all the projectiles, both real and imaginary, that they can run in their caliber, they cannot match the versatility of the Grendel or for that matter the 300 AAC Blk. This erks me a little in that the 300 has now supplanted the Grendel as the caliber most likely to piss them off, but such is life.

The latest tactic is now to run about shouting that non of the 6.5 projectiles are appropriate due the fact they were not designed for the Grendel velocities.

I would note that most 6.5 projectiles are designed for the early generation 6.5x55 Swedish Mausers which while voluminous, hold pressure to a nice mild 42,000 psi and velocities that mimic the Grendel. With few exceptions most of the projectiles are suitable and well within the velocity envelope albeit towards the lower end. This said the Grendel does not cope well with the very heavy bullets.

For those who are unfamiliar with history we were also accused of having the wrong primer size, small primers not being correct, too much case taper so the rounds will not feed from an AR magazine profile, too little taper so that the rounds will not extract and a too severe shoulder to allow feeding in full auto.

I doubt that this latest attack will prove any more effective than the preceding comments.

[dvrod18]

It's kind of like ford versus Chevy, except in this case all of us smart people know which cartridge/caliber is truly the best. I'm no expert, and after purchase of my first upper (.450 BM) there was no comparison on what my next choice would be. And let me go on to say that I was truly unbiased in my research and decision, it didn't take long to see which cartridge/upper was more superior. What I don't understand is why there is such hatred from the other side, makes no sense to me.

When it is all said and done there will always be those who will deny or twist the facts in their favor, just to justify their (its) existence to themselves. And there will always be those that don't possess the skills to determine things for themselves, who will aimlessly follow. I mean after all they can't put anything on the Internet that isn't true (ha ha).

[Von Gruff]

What I don't understand is why there is such hatred from the other side, makes no sense to me.

Have a look at their approach and see if there is a similarity in the unfounded venom of the anti hunters and in fact any of the anti crusaders. The usual response of those in the wrong is to attack any and every aspect of the "other side" without taking a single fact to the table. A beligerance based on knowing they are on the loosing side to any factual discussion. And beside Grendel will never suffer from lack of convertable brass if there is a shortage or a huge demand that the factory cannot keep up with (Not poking Bill A )

[sneaky one]

Too fast in Grendel speed=no. Correct speeds-mid-to upper 2k's= yes. The 6.8 group has way too much anger. Why??
As Von stated-in any event-we shall have-find brass.- Either Grendel, or AK brass... We will keep shooting.
The lighter bullets are the ones that I use most often. I hope I didn't help to piss( them -6.8 group)off!- The 6.8 is fine-for it's intended purpose.
As a side note-I recently purchased a 7.62x40 WT.-
The .300Blk is fine also-I see no use, or availiability here -for a suppressor, wanted more case cap.- is all.
There is no perfect caliber, or choices.
Read-study-decide, based upon your usage-hunts , etc.
Can't we all get back to -Getting along?-We are all in this together.---Or are we? Lose the anger! Keep the right to buy what You Want-Whenever-Wherever!
Don't push anger to all of us that are happy w/ our choices
It's like the religion thing==to each their own=let it go.

[LRRPF52]

Right now, we need to pull together. I tell people that both the 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC are great high-performance intermediate cartridges for the AR15 platform, especially for hunting. Both have a nice selection of bullets for them:





Both have about half the recoil of the .308, and are relatively easy to upgrade to in the AR15. I personally like 6.5mm, even though I was raised on .277, but the BC's are what they are, and projectile selection is what it is. You are more likely to get a pass-through with a high SD 6.5 than a short 6.8, but there are still many great hunting pills for the 6.8, just nowhere near the amount for the 6.5, even when we cut out 140gr class pills.

[JASmith]

Has anyone refuted these claims?

I can readily say that a simple comparison of bullet manufacturer's minimum recommended velocities will show that all hunting bullets of less than about 140 gr will function as advertised over normal hunting velocities. The only exceptions to this generic statement would be those bullets designed to stay together at velocities exceeding about 3200 ft/sec.

[mongoosesnipe]

the vast majority of 6.8 projectiles are designed for the 270 Winchester which operates at different velocities than the 6.8 one thing that must be considered with the Grendel is that most of the projectiles for the 6.5 are designed with the swede in mind and the various 6.5 that have come since most of which seek to emulate the swede outside of the magnums its only recently that we begin to see projectiles being designed with the Grendel in mind 123 sst though the Grendel operates at velocities near the original swede loads the swede fired 140+ bullets at those velocities where as the Grendel does it with 120 from an ar so it isnt a realistic comparison that said i am pro 6.5 over 6.8 there is in fact a much wider selection of projectiles just looking at sierra 9/277, 10/264, 38/308 so if one wants tou youse projectile selection as a argument then the 30 Remington ar or the 300 black out are defiantly the best....

[Drifter]

Forgive me, but I see an absence of 6.5mm hunting bullets between 100 and 120 grains, a weight class that would seemingly fit the Grendel nicely.

I recognize the benefits of the Grendel compared to the 68, as the Grendel excels at distance whether shooting paper, steel, or medium game. But at typical and practical hunting distances (under 200 yards), the 68 using the 95gr TTSX and 100gr AccuBond (both of which were designed for the 68) is very effective on deer, and often results in DRT kills. The Grendel is equally effective, but perhaps a lower percentage of DRT's at closer distances. When stretching it out to 400 and 500+ yards, the Grendel has shown an edge.

Besides the aforementioned bullets designed for the 68, I believe the effectiveness of the cartridge on deer is due to velocity. The 68 pushes these bullets at 2700+ fps, where as the Grendel using 120gr-class bullets is usually below 2500 fps with typical hunting setups. Higher impact velocity coupled with an appropriately-designed bullet equates to more shock on an animal's nervous system, and quicker kills. The same logic is what makes the Grendel more effective at extended distances. The higher-BC 6.5mm bullets retain velocity better.

I realize that there are a few suitable 6.5mm 100gr offerings (TTSX, Ballistic Tip, and Partition) that can be pushed at higher speeds, but their BC's are relatively low, thus offering no real advantage that one expects from the bore size. Also, based on recovered bullets, the design of the 68's 95gr TTSX is superior to the 65's 100gr TTSX. The 95gr has a lower expansion threshold, and the petals peel back further, resulting in a much more impressive mushroom.

My comments are based on personal experience. And not just on a handful on animals shot by me during one hunting season, as I've also witnessed numerous deer shot by others over the last few years, both during hunting season and out-of-season on agricultural depredation permits with only the 68 and 65 being used.

My preference is the Grendel, but I believe the cartridge's effectiveness on medium game could be further enhanced with appropriately-designed good-BC hunting bullets in the 107gr-to-108gr class that could be pushed ~200+ fps faster than the 120gr+ bullets that are most often used.

[mongoosesnipe]

The 6.8 hit the ground running with Remington standing behind it to muscle it and several manufactors clambering it where the Grendel has been more of a slow burn I have a lot of hope for the new nosler accubond long range but would like to see a few hunting offerings in the lighter range designed around the Grendel I think part of it is that 6.8 is called 6.8 instead of 270 which seems to differentiate it for all those without an understanding of the metric system but also and promotes a differt design point since the bullets are marketed for 6.8 instead of 270 al that said it has been brought up over and over but mark larue did lay down an elk at 405 yards with a 120 grain barnes....

[JASmith]

...but mark larue did lay down an elk at 405 yards with a 120 grain barnes....

And then we have the "725 Yard Speedgoat" by a Grendel shooter.

The point is that the 6.5 Grendel thrives because there are so many excellent 6.5 caliber bullets for hunting, target, and plinking. More are coming on the scene.

It is the 277/6.8 bullet category that was obliged to play catch-up. The majority of the 6.8 bullets are light weight and short-nosed to accommodate the characteristics of the cartridge. The light weight bullets used in the 6.8 limit the effective hunting range compared to other calibers both from a wind drift and a terminal effects point of view.

[mongoosesnipe]

I think most people tend to get too caught up in bulet performance over shooter performance seeking those pretty expanded mushrooms that they see in the adds when in reality shooter performance is far more important than bullet performance a magic bullet that triples in size and fully penetrates doesn't do much good if you don't hit vitals though it does buy you a half inch margin off error

[A320PYLT]

I think most people tend to get too caught up in bulet performance over shooter performance seeking those pretty expanded mushrooms that they see in the adds when in reality shooter performance is far more important than bullet performance a magic bullet that triples in size and fully penetrates doesn't do much good if you don't hit vitals though it does buy you a half inch margin off error

Say that again my friend because I don't believe they heard you up in the cheap seats!!

A320PYLT

[mongoosesnipe]

Say that again my friend because I don't believe they heard you up in the cheap seats!!

A320PYLT

I think most people tend to get too caught up in bulet performance over shooter performance seeking those pretty expanded mushrooms that they see in the adds when in reality shooter performance is far more important than bullet performance a magic bullet that triples in size and fully penetrates doesn't do much good if you don't hit vitals though it does buy you a half inch margin off error

[LRRPF52]

That is what's great about the Grendel, since we have affordable ammunition to practice with, when you look at the Wolf Gold line/120gr MPT at under $13/box from AimSurplus.

In a limited availability environment, we can fire-form 7.62x39 brass or even steel cases. When I went out to a local range on opening day of rifle season last year, I noticed that magnums just aren't such a great platform to practice marksmanship with. My neighbor's .300 Win Mag that I developed loads for, had me beat up after 3 rounds, and they weren't even near max loads.

With my Grendel, I was shooting all day long like it was fun or something, and consistently holding .8-1.2 MOA all day with the factory 123gr AMAX at 200yds...just small little clusters. This is why I think it would be better for people to get an AR15 chambered in Grendel for hunting, as they can marry the gun affordably, shooting higher amounts of ammunition at the same price they will pay per box of magnums, with predictable results for the hunt.

[mongoosesnipe]

Dispite what ammunition and gun manufacturers would have us believe other than the Grendel and a few others which are innovative to their platforms there really has not been a truly advantages cartridge produced in nearly a century simply new cases to take advantage of advancements in powder technology to my knowledge there isn't an animal that walks the earth that hasn't fallen to cartridges like 6.5x55 or 30-06