Looking for recommendations on Thermal Scope

[Constitutionalist]

I've been looking at thermal scopes and have it down to three. All ATN Thor 4:

1.5-15x 640
1-10x 640
4.5-18x 384

Mostly going to be coyotes in Michigan so 200yds would be a really long shot most of the time. I like the thought of higher resolution but have seen some videos of hunts with the 4.5-18x 384 and they look very good. $4k for the 1.5x 640 is my very upper limit, but I don't want to spend the extra $500-$800 if its not necessary.

Please share your experiences with these or similar scopes.

Thanks!

John

[Double Naught Spy]

I would never suggest you buy ATN. With that said, and thinking about what you are doing, let's look at the number of pixels that come into play. Keep in mind that zoom is digital and when you double the magnification, you quarter the resolution.

640 resolution is 640x480 = 307200 pixels
384 resolution is 384x288 = 110592 pixels

640 looks a lot better until you start to zoom and chances are, you aren't going to be shooting on native magnification, not unless you have your caller set up at 20 yards in front of you and plan on shooting very close. You are going to zoom in your image.

A 1.5x 640 scope zoomed to 3x means you at 320x240 resolution or just 76800 pixels. So, at less magnification, you have a lot less pixels coming into play than with the 384 resolution 4.5x scope. The downside to the 4.5x scope is a narrower field of view. The upside is better resolution which means better image quality. Do you want to shoot an itty bitty coyote at 200 yards, or even 100 yards with a clearer image or fuzzier image?

Your 4.5x scope comes with a 50mm lens. The larger the objective lens, the better the image quality (everything else being equal).
Your 1x 640 scope comes with a tiny 19mm lens.
Your 1.5x 640 scope comes with a tiny 25mm lens. Again, we are dealing in 2 dimensions. At 25mm, it isn't 1/2 the size of a 50mm, but 1/4.

DO NOT TRUST ANY OF THE IMAGES ATN USES AS EXAMPLES OF IMAGES THROUGH ATN SCOPES. The images are fabrications and do not fit what is being claimed. Many companies do this, unfortunately.

What the low magnification scopes will give you is a clearer wide angle view because of their low magnification. Unless you plan on shooting a lot a very low magnification (i.e., very short range), these scopes are not going to be as good at targeting.

I would suggest that you are going to be able to identify and target coyotes better with the 4.5x 384 50mm scope than with your owner low magnification, higher resolution, tiny object lens scopes.

[Constitutionalist]

Thanks, DNS!

Very interesting and thought-provoking. The videos I'd been checking out were posted by hunters and the 4.5-18x 384 looked really good. I was concerned I was missing something vs the 640's. I'm not too concerned about the field of view. I rarely set my scopes below 4x and usually hunt at 6x or 7x. 4.5x should be fine for scanning.

Do you have other scopes you'd recommend that are similarly priced? Thanks for the help!

Love your videos. Hogs must hate you!

John

[Double Naught Spy]

For the price, I would check out Pulsar's Thermion line and see what you think. You don't get all the bells and whistles as with ATN, but you get recording and several of the nifty features (most of which you won't really use or use often, but are cool to have). Pulsar (via Sellmark, their importer) has excellent customer service if you have an issue. Stay way from FLIR, which is no longer making rifle scopes for the civilian market, but many are still available. AGM and Bering Optics are are the new kids on the block in less expensive thermal and they don't have much of a track history as basis for suggestion to buy.

I might add that at 4.5x, you may be doing a lot of shooting without zooming at all. You may find that is a pretty sweet spot for magnification for which you can do a lot and not touch anything. Once you start zooming, however, you lose resolution. That is just the nature of digital zoom.

[gwtx]

+1 on the Sellmark customer service, and the Pulsar products. I have had the Apex XD 38A for over 4 yrs. It has served well. Customer service was very pleasant to talk to when I had a couple of questions on the operation of the scope. There are now days better scopes, but they are more expensive than I can afford. Couldn't really justify them if I could afford them. I can I.D. targets out to about 500 yds when weather conditions are good. Even then, it's mainly the "background" scenery that fades out. The HOT images are still there, but they get grainy when zooming that far in "un Ideal" conditions, ie., rain, humidity, and times when the day to night temperature doesn't vary much. As DNS said, don't put too much faith in the images the ads have in them. If they are real, they are done in perfectly ideal conditions. I don't need the bells and whistles. I use my scope almost every night, and need the reliability, and it has performed well so far. I do recommend the power pack accessory, because I do a LOT of "scanning" with my rifle and I hate fooling with batteries. If I needed to replace my scope today, I think the Thermion line that DNS mentioned would be the first place I would go. If you contact the dealers on the internet without going through ebay, they can usually cut you a bit better deal,,,I found out too late.
Now that I bragged about it, my scope will probably quit on me tonight. Good luck,,,get rigged up and kill some hogs.

[toolsofthetrade]

I have been very happy with my THOR, want to see video straight from my scope? Look at my videos on here and others on my YouTube channel.
I would definitely go the higher base mag though. I did a lot of research and asked opinions on them before I chose mine.
That being said there are several options.
I am happy with the choice I made.

[oyster]

I wouldn't discount ATN. I've got three of their units, 1 NV and two thermals. Both of the thermals are the HD version not 4K. My primary shooter on my Grendel is 2.5x25 640 I can see as far as I'm going to shoot at night. My longest shot is 300yrds and I think I was zoomed in to 4.5X. I don't use all the bells and whistles except RAV. No problems with the scopes themselves, check out the ATN FB pages, there's some boys in LA shooting a lot of hogs.
Jay

[Double Naught Spy]

When ATN works, it works pretty darned good. When it doesn't work, many ATN customers feel absolutely screwed by the company. You don't hear that from Pulsar or Trijicon customers.

[toolsofthetrade]

Just saying, they have upped there CS alot in the past year.

[grayfox]

if there's good competition from 2 or more companies, then it's good for us!
still just a browser on this topic however...

[A5BLASTER]

My advice is, get whatever DNS suggest that will fit your task.

[toolsofthetrade]

I wouldn't discount ATN. I've got three of their units, 1 NV and two thermals. Both of the thermals are the HD version not 4K. My primary shooter on my Grendel is 2.5x25 640 I can see as far as I'm going to shoot at night. My longest shot is 300yrds and I think I was zoomed in to 4.5X. I don't use all the bells and whistles except RAV. No problems with the scopes themselves, check out the ATN FB pages, there's some boys in LA shooting a lot of hogs.
Jay

If your talking about Rougarou hog control, ive hunted with them, supposed to go back again next month, but its up in the air with all this covid crap

[CJW]