How to survive a grizzly bear attack

[montana]

https://www.outsideonline.com/2390732/how-survive-grizzly-bear-attack?fbclid=IwAR2i8RA7KEzwTpTrjmwk2qZDk4PrGhTx6lo9b3eolACCALAU50v6QtlzAgY

[Double Naught Spy]

Sorry, got to this point and figured the author was a Fruitloop.

Statistics don’t lie. By bringing a firearm into your home, you’re putting yourself at greater risk than you face going into grizzly habitat with zero protection or knowledge.

What a bunch of garbage. No, statistics do not lie. The opposite is absolutely true as well. Statistics do not tell the truth. Statistics are merely a collection of data points. How people choose to present them is where you get the liars and biased interpretations.

A gun in the home is not more dangerous than going into grizzly country with zero protection or knowledge. There are only about 55K grizzlies in all of North America and most are in areas of low human population and so you have low amounts of direct contact.

However, if you want to play a statistics game, you are more likely to be injured or killed handling a live grizzly with your bare hands than handling a loaded gun. STATISTICS DO NOT LIE! Right?

It’s only with significant training that a responsible gun owner can hope to use a gun to actually gain safety.

That is just utter crap!

The article may have some good information in it, but given the obvious nonsense spouted, I won't bother to take the time to fact check information from this article to figure out what is correct and what it is garbage. What is written most certainly is not a definitive guide. To believe as much would be extremely naive.

[montana]

Sorry, got to this point and figured the author was a Fruitloop.



What a bunch of garbage. No, statistics do not lie. The opposite is absolutely true as well. Statistics do not tell the truth. Statistics are merely a collection of data points. How people choose to present them is where you get the liars and biased interpretations.

A gun in the home is not more dangerous than going into grizzly country with zero protection or knowledge. There are only about 55K grizzlies in all of North America and most are in areas of low human population and so you have low amounts of direct contact.

However, if you want to play a statistics game, you are more likely to be injured or killed handling a live grizzly with your bare hands than handling a loaded gun. STATISTICS DO NOT LIE! Right?



That is just utter crap!

The article may have some good information in it, but given the obvious nonsense spouted, I won't bother to take the time to fact check information from this article to figure out what is correct and what it is garbage. What is written most certainly is not a definitive guide. To believe as much would be extremely naive.

[rabiddawg]

I hope I’m not hijacking the thread but I would like to ask a question of Montana.

I hunt in an area that has plenty of Louisiana black bear. Supposed to be a separate and distinct species. Very protected and increasing in numbers. We have been taught that these bears are not aggressive unless you get between a female and her cubs.

I recently heard a rumor that these bears are not in fact La. black bears but bears brought here from Minnesota. I tend to believe this based on one I saw that I swear was as big as a grown cow and some of my game cameras. These things are getting bigger and bigger.

My question, do black bears in your area cause you the same concern as a griz?

I am always mindful of the bears but I am concerned we may be taking them lightly down here. Especially some of the bigger ones.

[montana]

I hope I’m not hijacking the thread but I would like to ask a question of Montana.

I hunt in an area that has plenty of Louisiana black bear. Supposed to be a separate and distinct species. Very protected and increasing in numbers. We have been taught that these bears are not aggressive unless you get between a female and her cubs.

I recently heard a rumor that these bears are not in fact La. black bears but bears brought here from Minnesota. I tend to believe this based on one I saw that I swear was as big as a grown cow and some of my game cameras. These things are getting bigger and bigger.

My question, do black bears in your area cause you the same concern as a griz?

I am always mindful of the bears but I am concerned we may be taking them lightly down here. Especially some of the bigger ones.

Black bears are wild animals and should always be respected like any wild animal. Any bear with cubs is dangerous. Black bears are usually harmless and comical at times. Most encounters with any bear usually ends with the bear wandering or running off. A black bear is probably more dangerous than a grizzly if it shows predatory behavior. Grizzlies see humans more as threats or competition than as pray and will false charge or chew the heck out of you if you cross their invisible line of comfort and will only stop if it is satisfied you are no longer a threat. Not good under any scenario, but better than If a black bear is doing a predatory attack. It will not stop until you are bear poop or you fight it off. If a black or grizzly bear is aware of your presence and follows you for any distance, "even when changing course", then that bear could be sizing you up as a meal. If a person starts following you for no apparent reason, then your red alert should be blasting. Any bear, mountain lion, wolf following you is no different. Black bears are less likely to attack compared to a grizzly, "but if it does attach" it is usually a predatory attack unlike a grizzly.. In any case, I love being in the woods yet I always keep a healthy respect for any wild animal.

[Double Naught Spy]

LOL, I more or less agree more with your assessment. This article comes from the bunny hugger, anti-gun perspective, "but all in all" there is some good info for the un-educated.

Well, see, there are the problems. You mentioned the uneducated. How are the uneducated supposed to know how to separate out the good information for the bull crap in the article?

What I don't fully understand is where we treat an online adventure & travel rag writer as if he is some sort of expert on this very serious topic. He isn't somebody like Stephen Herrero. He is an online gun rag writer. He isn't a bear expert. He isn't a bear attack expert. He isn't a self defense expert. BUT, he took a two day class, probably staying at the Holiday Inn Express, and not writes as an expert with the definitive work on the subject - NOT! Herrero has been studying this subject for quite a while, decades, and while I don't agree with his feelings towards guns either, he does know the bear attacks, grizzly bear attacks, inside and out.

Just for giggles and grins, let's look as Wes' vast experience that would give him the qualifications to write this definitive work....

Wes Siler runs IndefinitelyWild, Outside's lifestyle column telling the story of adventure-travel in the outdoors, the vehicles and gear that get us there, and the people we meet along the way. You may recognize Wes from such websites as Jalopnik, Gizmodo, and Hell For Leather, where he used to review cars and motorcycles, and share his various misadventures, outdoors and otherwise. Wes lives in Montana with his partner Virginia McQueen, and their dogs, Wiley, Bowie, and Teddy.

Okay, maybe I am wrong here, but aside from being an adventure-travel writer, writing about cars and motorcycles doesn't seem to bolster his creds in the bear expert category.

I have to admit, I really liked this statement. It made me laugh.

If you choose to employ a firearm in addition to bear spray, you’re taking on the burden of possibly killing what’s both a magnificent animal and a threatened species.

After all, as the author of such a definitive work, he wants to be sure that people really think about whether or not they put their life ahead of the life of the grizzly that is attacking them, a grizzly which is magnificent animal and a threatened species. Well, as most victims will tell you, they felt they were pretty magnificent animals as well and while they aren't a threatened species, they were a threatened individual. Of course, this was followed up by the ominous passive aggressive threat that should you decide to so rudely defend your life with a firearm, you who is neither as magnificent or a threatened species, the authorities will investigate you if you kill such a beautiful animal.

All grizzly fatalities are the subjects of exhaustive investigation by state and federal law enforcement agencies. If those parties find that you didn’t exercise good judgment in a grizzly attack, then you will face fines in the tens of thousands of dollars and possible jail time.

This is definitely where I would want to err on the judicial side myself and go with that it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. However, since he mentioned the legalities aspect. I missed the part of the article where he talks about what is and is not a justified defense on bears. You would think that would be some really freaking helpful information since he just firmly placed fear into the heads of his uneducated readers that could very easily lead to delay or failure to deploy critical lethal force because NOBODY WANTS TO GO TO JAIL AND/OR FACE FINES OF TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.

If somebody wants some actual good information, this (and I say this generously) cliff-notes version of "How I spent my weekend at bear school" article is NOT what the person going into grizzly country should be reading.

And just to be clear, the is nothing in this article on how to survive a grizzly attack, despite the claims to the contrary.

There is nothing on this in the intro.
There is nothing on this in "Grizzlies are Freakin' Terrifying"
There is nothing on this in "Movies Aren't Real"
There is nothing on this in "Why Bears Attack"
There is nothing on this in "Nonlethal Deterrents" (He just talks about some of his training) aside from trying to hit the bear with bear spray or try using a marine flare.
There is nothing on this in "The Tricky Topic of Firearms" (He just talks about some of his training) aside from shoot as fast as you can and try to hit the bear a lot.
There is nothing on this in "The Only Sure Way To Avoid Grizzly Attacks" (which isn't even about a grizzly attack)

So nope, nothing about how to actually survive an attack, just some information on the animals, movies, defense tools, and avoiding attack, but nothing on actually surviving an attack. Nothing on actually fighting bears, treatment of wounds, etc.

[rabiddawg]

Montana, the problem is I hunt the Tensas National Refuge. Huge hardwood forest covered by palmetto that varies is height from waist to chest high. Plus I’m deaf in my right ear so it’s impossible for me to distinguish direction of sounds.

More often than not, I hunt and camp alone so I need to get as educated as I can about bears.

[rabiddawg]

DNS, I told a wise old man about something I read. He said, “son, a book will lay real still and let you write whatever you want in it”.

I’m betting you agree.

[montana]

Well, see, there are the problems. You mentioned the uneducated. How are the uneducated supposed to know how to separate out the good information for the bull crap in the article?

What I don't fully understand is where we treat an online adventure & travel rag writer as if he is some sort of expert on this very serious topic. He isn't somebody like Stephen Herrero. He is an online gun rag writer. He isn't a bear expert. He isn't a bear attack expert. He isn't a self defense expert. BUT, he took a two day class, probably staying at the Holiday Inn Express, and not writes as an expert with the definitive work on the subject - NOT! Herrero has been studying this subject for quite a while, decades, and while I don't agree with his feelings towards guns either, he does know the bear attacks, grizzly bear attacks, inside and out.

Just for giggles and grins, let's look as Wes' vast experience that would give him the qualifications to write this definitive work....



Okay, maybe I am wrong here, but aside from being an adventure-travel writer, writing about cars and motorcycles doesn't seem to bolster his creds in the bear expert category.

I have to admit, I really liked this statement. It made me laugh.



After all, as the author of such a definitive work, he wants to be sure that people really think about whether or not they put their life ahead of the life of the grizzly that is attacking them, a grizzly which is magnificent animal and a threatened species. Well, as most victims will tell you, they felt they were pretty magnificent animals as well and while they aren't a threatened species, they were a threatened individual. Of course, this was followed up by the ominous passive aggressive threat that should you decide to so rudely defend your life with a firearm, you who is neither as magnificent or a threatened species, the authorities will investigate you if you kill such a beautiful animal.This is definitely where I would want to err on the judicial side myself and go with that it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. However, since he mentioned the legalities aspect. I missed the part of the article where he talks about what is and is not a justified defense on bears. You would think that would be some really freaking helpful information since he just firmly placed fear into the heads of his uneducated readers that could very easily lead to delay or failure to deploy critical lethal force because NOBODY WANTS TO GO TO JAIL AND/OR FACE FINES OF TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.
.

Like I stated before this was written by a bunny hugger. They actually do believe people should risk their lives to save a bear, didn't you know that already? That said, using a firearm for self defense on a grizzly can be almost as serious as using it on a human being. Killing an endangered species without justified cause is not a place anyone would want to be in. It would be the fish and game wardens with the bear biologist that will determine a persons innocence or guilt. How do you teach what a false charge looks like if that is even possible?? Do the bullet-bullets entrance wounds collaborate the self defense story or not? I would guess shooting a bear at close range from the front would look better than long range trajectory holes on the side or rear. That is kind of self evident. I have never read or heard of any game official give a definitive answer on what exactly is or is not determined as self defense shooting. Like any self defense shooting, they will investigate and the shooter will sweat. Grizzlies will click their teeth and false charge. I have experienced this first hand with a mother grizzly. I never had to shoot. I also had a young grizzly jump up about 10 yards in front of me as I was looking over the side of a logging road without any clue he was even there. I thought the piece of equipment I had just turned off would have scared any bear away. I was wrong! Pepper spray is probably the best defense for most people who enter our forest every year, especially if they are not very experienced with firearms. Either way he was correct about training when using either one.

If somebody wants some actual good information, this (and I say this generously) cliff-notes version of "How I spent my weekend at bear school" article is NOT what the person going into grizzly country should be reading.

And just to be clear, the is nothing in this article on how to survive a grizzly attack, despite the claims to the contrary.

There is nothing on this in the intro.
There is nothing on this in "Grizzlies are Freakin' Terrifying"
There is nothing on this in "Movies Aren't Real"
There is nothing on this in "Why Bears Attack"
There is nothing on this in "Nonlethal Deterrents" (He just talks about some of his training) aside from trying to hit the bear with bear spray or try using a marine flare.
There is nothing on this in "The Tricky Topic of Firearms" (He just talks about some of his training) aside from shoot as fast as you can and try to hit the bear a lot.
There is nothing on this in "The Only Sure Way To Avoid Grizzly Attacks" (which isn't even about a grizzly attack)

So nope, nothing about how to actually survive an attack, just some information on the animals, movies, defense tools, and avoiding attack, but nothing on actually surviving an attack. Nothing on actually fighting bears, treatment of wounds, etc.

Did you actually read the article?? He had Todd Orres account of his grizzly attack, he gave reasons why bears attack, recommended a Glock 20 with hard cast bullets and other advice like paying attention to bear notices on trail heads.
If you were thinking of becoming a grizzly expert by reading any article, then you are in for a big disappointment. Many experts such as bear biologist and fish and game wardens have berated the use of firearms as less effective than pepper spray for years. I ignored them anyway and carried both. I have now noticed they are not so willing to sing that song lol. Using a flare was pretty comical, but if that is all you have, it is better than nothing. Learning bear behavior is important, but all bears do not have a set behavior. No, it was not the definitive article on surviving a bear attack but he was correct about the necessity to practice with what ever tool you use. Get five self proclaimed bear experts together and you will have five different opinions when it comes to the best way to defend against a bear attack. Somethings we have to decide for our selves.

[montana]

Montana, the problem is I hunt the Tensas National Refuge. Huge hardwood forest covered by palmetto that varies is height from waist to chest high. Plus I’m deaf in my right ear so it’s impossible for me to distinguish direction of sounds.

More often than not, I hunt and camp alone so I need to get as educated as I can about bears.

First thing is, you are taking a big risk by hunting and camping alone, " I do the same" but not a good idea. Not being able to hear is also a big negative. I would be more concerned about a stray bullet than any bear attack, but keep a clean camp as not to invite unwelcome dinner guest .

https://www.nytimes.com/video/science/100000000812441/stephen-herrero-on-black-bear-attacks.html

DNS recommendation is very good.

[rabiddawg]

I guess until something bad happens we will just have to tolerate the damage the bears do to property. I camp on a private inholding inside the refuge. I built a box 8’ long x 7’ wide 4’ tall that I sleep in. No way I was gonna sleep in a tent.

Haven’t had one in camp yet but regularly see them while on a stand. I have seen video of them climbing up ladders with hunter in the stand. They always ease back down. I have never heard of anyone being threatened by a La black bear.

[41bear]

While there are several misinformed statements, advanced by Double Naught Spy, there is also a good amount of knowledgeable facts that are worth noting IMO and so I thank the OP. It was a great and sometimes funny post.

[Bowfisher]

I will take the chance on the verdict from the Fish and Game Monday morning quarterbacks....IF they ever find out I had to shoot one!

[bj139]

Would the sound of a warning shot discourage a bear that was following you?

[montana]

Would the sound of a warning shot discourage a bear that was following you?

If you have nerves of steel. I wouldn't have waited so long. Of course he could have missed too!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7k2svzGOPY