New Barrel --

[sgt_murf]

Currently
I am not too happy with the 24" ER Shaw AA bolt/barrel combo in 1-9 that I have, accuracy is just not where I would like. It may not be the barrel at full fault it could be that I do not trust the quality of ER Shaw barrels, My handload are not where they should be, or my skills are just not up to what I expect from the chambering.

So with all that said I am looking at maybe the CSS 28" using a LW bbl with bolt. my question is what are others experiance with this product. good bad indifferant
I have not contacted CSS yet so the twist rate I not too sure of I'm in hopes of 1-8.

[VASCAR2]

Just curious what kind of groups your getting in your Shaw barrel. I have a 16" Shaw and have gotten groups as small as 3/4" to 3" at 100 yards depending on ammo. I noticed Alexander Arms uses different twist for the same length barrel as J&T uses for their 6.5 Grendel barrels. I also have 1 in 9 twist and it shoots good with 100 grain Nosler BT and factory 123 grain A-Max. Have you checked with your vendor to see if the barrel you purchased is in spec.? I figure a rack grade barrel it is not going to shoot everything well but they usually will shoot good with some bullet, powder, primer combo. I figure minimum spec for a rack grade barrel is 1 MOA to 3 MOA.

[sgt_murf]

The barrel was ordered directly from AA about 1 year or so ago (maybe 18months ago) as a Bolt barrel combo 24" installed with free float tube. Actually found out it was a Shaw after I received - Never thought to ask.
Groups was 5 shot groups range from 6" to 4" at the 100yd line off rest with irons. Now that is with just reloads ranging from 100grains to 120 grs using reformed brass with AA2520 and TAC. I am not blaming the barrel yet or AA, just trying to figure out what's up.
Prior to the old site going down I mentioned running a 6.5mm jag and patch down the bore and feeling loose and tight spots in the bore I mentioned this in a post on the old site ----whaa laa site goes down. Since that time I have continued to shoot her thinking that maybe she would shoot in, as the bore just could be rough in spots (really not uncommon for a new production buton pulled barrel). I have varied her diet to find out what she would perform with - no good results at any yard line.
Yesterday took her out and fired some 100gr Sierrias with TAC at 30grs (used AA cases for this Virgin WSR primers) 7 rounds slow fire ( like 1 Min between shots you know the drill look in spotting scope observe POI, recover brass observe for pressure signs, rebuild postion refocus eyes to a sharp front post) results - 1" at the 25 yard line, 5" at the 100yard. Tried some 120 Amax did a little better. her rounds count is 300 out the tube prior to yesterday now it is 350 as I have not had much time to work out loads.
After firing yesterday I cleaned the barrel with Breakfree and jag /patch then used used some sweets No sign of copper, dryed the bore and applied Breakfree then dry swabbed her again with only jag and patch. This time however never felt the loose and tight spot I did notice the gas port when the jag got to that location on the barrel (I have noticed the same on issue M16's when jagging and patching just means port is drilled in the Land vs the groove).
This barrel has never seen a bore brush save a nylon one and alway cleaned from the Chamber one pass through coated Dewey one piece rod pull jag and patch pull back reattach jag patch push through until patch comes out clean.
The load "should" hold 1 to 1.5" at 100yds in my opinion.

Now that I am back home (AR) vs being stationed in WV, and near smiths that work on the MTU (Marksmanship Team Unit). I am considering break it apart, maybe get the crown recut and pull a chamber cast. If I decide to stick it out with this barrel or just order a CSS when funding is good to go.
Thoughts????

[warped]

It is hard to say from here.

I would look inside with a borescope, then clean with Iosso bore paste and clamp the rifle into a rest.

I would then fire 10 rounds into a target at 100yds, therefore eliminating the human element.

then see what you have, many factors can contribute to a group that opens up like that.

One thing that will be a problem is that if it is not bedded with blue locktite at the gas block and bbl extension it will tend to oscillate and therefore throw the POI all over.

[LR1955]

The barrel was ordered directly from AA about 1 year or so ago (maybe 18months ago) as a Bolt barrel combo 24" installed with free float tube. Actually found out it was a Shaw after I received - Never thought to ask.
Groups was 5 shot groups range from 5" to 2" at the 100yd line off rest with irons. Now that is with just reloads ranging from 100grains to 120 grs using reformed brass with AA2520 and TAC. I am not blaming the barrel yet or AA, just trying to figure out what's up.
Prior to the old site going down I mentioned running a 6.5mm jag and patch down the bore and feeling loose and tight spots in the bore I mentioned this in a post on the old site ----whaa laa site goes down. Since that time I have continued to shoot her thinking that maybe she would shoot in, as the bore just could be rough in spots (really not uncommon for a new production buton pulled barrel). I have varied her diet to find out what she would perform with - no good results at any yard line.
Yesterday took her out and fired some 100gr Sierrias with TAC at 30grs (used AA cases for this Virgin WSR primers) 7 rounds slow fire ( like 1 Min between shots you know the drill look in spotting scope observe POI, recover brass observe for pressure signs, rebuild postion refocus eyes to a sharp front post) results - 1" at the 25 yard line, 5" at the 100yard. Tried some 120 Amax did a little better. her rounds count is 300 out the tube prior to yesterday now it is 350 as I have not had much time to work out loads.
After firing yesterday I cleaned the barrel with Breakfree and jag /patch then used used some sweets No sign of copper, dryed the bore and applied Breakfree then dry swabbed her again with only jag and patch. This time however never felt the loose and tight spot I did notice the gas port when the jag got to that location on the barrel (I have noticed the same on issue M16's when jagging and patching just means port is drilled in the Land vs the groove).
This barrel has never seen a bore brush save a nylon one and alway cleaned from the Chamber one pass through coated Dewey one piece rod pull jag and patch pull back reattach jag patch push through until patch comes out clean.
The load "should" hold 1 to 1.5" at 100yds in my opinion.

Now that I am back home (AR) vs being stationed in WV, and near smiths that work on the MTU (Marksmanship Team Unit). I am considering break it apart, maybe get the crown recut and pull a chamber cast. If I decide to stick it out with this barrel or just order a CSS when funding is good to go.
Thoughts????

Murf:

If you have checked everything you possibly can and found the rifle to be sound, I would bet the barrel is the problem.

Before spending the money, do a couple of rapid fire strings. If it still is acting up, it is probably the barrel. I wouldn't blame AA or Shaw. There is very little way they can tell if something is wrong with the barrel aside from putting the upper in a vice and shooting for group.

LR1955

[LRRPF52]

I know that a deformation on your gas port can cause accuracy to go to crap. I just bought an SPR barrel made by the guy who used to do them for Crane. They use Douglas premium air-gaged pipes, and it grouped 1/2 MOA for the 1st 200rds, then opened up. Borescope analysis revealed a large deformation at the gas port from erosion, with a protruding piece of the erosion into the bore. It was tearing into the bullets as they went down, and damaging them enough to jack up the accuracy really bad. Still haven't decided what to do...final finish from Tubbs....?? I doubt lead-lapping will smooth out hardened steel. Really sucks!

[StoneTower]

I know that a deformation on your gas port can cause accuracy to go to crap. I just bought an SPR barrel made by the guy who used to do them for Crane. They use Douglas premium air-gaged pipes, and it grouped 1/2 MOA for the 1st 200rds, then opened up. Borescope analysis revealed a large deformation at the gas port from erosion, with a protruding piece of the erosion into the bore. It was tearing into the bullets as they went down, and damaging them enough to jack up the accuracy really bad. Still haven't decided what to do...final finish from Tubbs....?? I doubt lead-lapping will smooth out hardened steel. Really sucks!

How big is the erosion. Could you enlarge the gas port enough to remove the damage and then use an adjustable gas block to tame it back down? If you enlarge it, many people put a brass rod in the barrel and then use numbered bits and enlarge it one number at a time.

Best of luck,

David

[sgt_murf]

One thing that will be a problem is that if it is not bedded with blue locktite at the gas block and bbl extension it will tend to oscillate and therefore throw the POI all over.

never did the Locktite bedding method.

LR and Warped I think you guys are all over it.
Break apart apply Loctite (I failed to do this) on BBL Extentension and on the gas Block (JP adjustable Low Profile). Fire rapids Like LR advised and if no improvement Vise her and fire in a control enviroment even bad ammo will show a improvement. So I will attempt these and reshoot , While the barrel is out I'm thinking about a Recrown --- Counterbored 11 degree or straight 11 degree. Thoughts? (remember as shipped this is threaded from AA for a 9/16x24 which currently has a FN FAL Flash Suppressor attached)

LRRPF52 thank you as I did consider this one if the others don't pan out might have to address this one.

P.S. Warped I also thought of Borescoping but suspected the Leade and throat if the issue is not crown, gas port, and bedding the Extentsion and Block.
Like I said earlier it could be me the loose nut behind the wheel. Shaw does not produce bad barrels and AA is great to work with I never addressed this with them. So neither of these two firms are at fault here if it is a bad barrel. Another thought is that AA uses a "compound" throat could be my skills at handloading for this as most other rifle that I loaded for have short or a Long throat with a degree vs a compound throat.
The Fix maybe here:

http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/525218/ptg-solid-pilot-chamber-finish-reamer-264-lbc--ar

cut 0.250 -.400 off chamber and another .250-.400" off muzzle and new extentsion and rechamber and recrown after the vise firing shows the fault to be barrel. if she checks good then find the issue.

[sgt_murf]

Just a update pulled the Barrel and Gas Block Loc-Tited both about two days ago.
Will reshoot for groups at a later date, and evaluate from there.
Loaded up some 120gr sierria's with 8208XBR (27.4grs), Grendel factory Brass with CCI450 primers for the evaluation I have some other loadings to test as well (bullets weights from 100gr to 123's with AA2530 and TAC).
If she continues with the current trend I will pull the Muzzle device to see if that has a negative effect on the barrel, reshoot.
Beyond that and crown check I will get a buddy at the MTU to scope the chamber and bore.

[LR1955]

never did the Locktite bedding method.

LR and Warped I think you guys are all over it.
Break apart apply Loctite (I failed to do this) on BBL Extentension and on the gas Block (JP adjustable Low Profile). Fire rapids Like LR advised and if no improvement Vise her and fire in a control enviroment even bad ammo will show a improvement. So I will attempt these and reshoot , While the barrel is out I'm thinking about a Recrown --- Counterbored 11 degree or straight 11 degree. Thoughts? (remember as shipped this is threaded from AA for a 9/16x24 which currently has a FN FAL Flash Suppressor attached)

LRRPF52 thank you as I did consider this one if the others don't pan out might have to address this one.

P.S. Warped I also thought of Borescoping but suspected the Leade and throat if the issue is not crown, gas port, and bedding the Extentsion and Block.
Like I said earlier it could be me the loose nut behind the wheel. Shaw does not produce bad barrels and AA is great to work with I never addressed this with them. So neither of these two firms are at fault here if it is a bad barrel. Another thought is that AA uses a "compound" throat could be my skills at handloading for this as most other rifle that I loaded for have short or a Long throat with a degree vs a compound throat.
The Fix maybe here:

http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/525218/ptg-solid-pilot-chamber-finish-reamer-264-lbc--ar

cut 0.250 -.400 off chamber and another .250-.400" off muzzle and new extentsion and rechamber and recrown after the vise firing shows the fault to be barrel. if she checks good then find the issue.

Murf:

I think you have done enough. What you are now describing about cutting off parts of the barrel, whether a 11 degree crown or a rebated crown is the problem, and questioning your handloading, will waste your time and your money. They are probably pointless with the best barrel but are completely pointless with a Shaw.

Take the Shaw off, chuck it into the trash, and get a respectable barrel. I think we went though this before about going cheap with the barrel but perhaps it was one of twenty others on the forum. If any barrel is a roll of the dice, it would be Shaw.

You may tinker with it and find something that will work, for a hundred rounds or so and then it will crap out again. Get rid of the thing. Bore scoping won't show an oversized bore and sometimes even the barrel companies don't know why a barrel that is within specs doesn't shoot.

Cutting off and re-chambering ought to cost you a couple hundred dollars. Put it towards a Krieger or Satern. Do yourself a favor and get a new barrel. Don't screw around with this one anymore.

LR1955

[sgt_murf]

As always thanks Gene,
PM sent. Have a great day all

[sgt_murf]

Gents,
I usually Hate to revive a old Thread, but I think what follows is deserving.

Fast forward to today The mentioned Grendel was shelfed UNTIL I was discussing firearms with a friend, The Rifle was noticed in the back of the safe seperated from everything else , hence a conversation of the woes. So he looks down the bore and sees what I have attempted to discribe to others (it was on the Old Forum site actually). Long Story short being the owner of MBT Tooling he chucks the barrel in the lathe indicating her in, procedes to lops her down to 22" places a recessed 11 degree target crown in. Looking down the bore there is still a slight a anomaliy in the last few inches of bore we both figured we would have to lop off more, but proof is in firing and we just wanted to see left her ar 22". Assembled her, grabbed some already assembled loads (123 Amax/264 LBC Brass/CCI450/IMR8208XBR @ 28.0gr) having removed the sights for other reasons, we opted to bore sight a Comp M4 Aimpoint quickly for a paper shot (2 MOA reticle dot). Off to the range I go, results 100 yards, 20 rounds, measurements outside to outside ** including ALL called FLYERS** 2.210" via calipers. I plan on placing a scope on here to see if the reddot 2 MOA worked against a tighter group, if so great it shoot better.

While this is good news I suspect that what Gene (LR1955) predicts will hold true she will fade. So armed with such knowledge, I now have a functioning hog gun when I go boar hunting and a range toy, that if need be lop down to 18" to remove the rest of the anomaliy "IF" it really makes a differance.

[LRRPF52]

Looking forward to your results. What glass and mount are you throwing on her?

[kamrr4437]

I myself dont have any experiences with ER Shaw barrels but alot of guys on here i notice are down on them. Im told you can either get a good one or a bad one of those. If you do opt for another barrel i would go with about an 8.75 twist. It has worked out well for me.

[sgt_murf]

Looking forward to your results. What glass and mount are you throwing on her?

LRRPF52, not really sure right now think of a cheap Redfield 4-16 or a Leupold VAR-X I yeah I know not the greatest but at least it's not that sks china stuff.

suggestions on optics? , did look at a weaver T series 36 X but, end use will probbaly be a hog gun (boar) so 36X is way much

Oh yeah that 2 MOA dot was heck to pay at 100 took up a lot of the aimimg black, Also loaded up some more rounds playing with length, dropped the charge to 27.5grs in case it makes a differance as well with seating depth etc etc.
Thanks everyone