What's wrong with the Howa OEM stocks?

[Teodoro]

I have a mini that came in a Boyd's stock. I'm looking to make it a little lighter for hiking the mountains, but trying to do it on a budget. I've seen people deride the stocks LSI provides, but I have these questions:
* What is actually wrong with them. I see a lot of references to o them having flaws, but few details on what the flaws of are.
* Anyone know what they weigh?

[tdbru]

Teodoro,
My stock and bottom "metal" came in at 2 1/4 lbs. the forend was a bit more flexible than I cared for. on the plus side it came with stock pillars. So the rifle was heavier than I thought it should be given the petite size of the cartridge. If I was starting over I'd get the carbon stalker myself. I feel that a 6.5 Grendel mini action bolt rifle should weigh under 6 lbs. Why not? the cartridge doesn't generate much recoil so why burden the setup with a lot of weight. For a stalking rifle that is. If you're doing benchrest or F-Class, then one runs pretty heavy rigs anyway.

They are pretty weatherproof. they are injection molded. at least the one I picked up when the mini Howa first came out is. the forend flexibility was concerning due to changing the pressure and direction of pressure on the barrel. i.e. POI shift depending on how things were changing the pressure on the barrel, like how much sling tension was used, etc. I could have relieved the areas that touched the stock sufficiently that one couldn't bend the stock far enough to touch the barrel I suppose. that would prevent the POI shift. But it was still pretty portly for the petite Grendel round, in my opinion. The carbon stalker stock is pretty light weight at between 23-24 oz. so that's a whole pound lighter.

they are sufficiently durable that one would likely not have an issue with durability. and if you relieve the forend so it will not touch the barrel even under a tight sling, for example, then a POI shift due to the forend flexibility could be overcome. of course then you'll have to see if the rifle groups better or worse with a free floated barrel. No guarantees in that regard. If the weight is not a big deal for you either way, then the factory stock is likely just fine for you.

If you think a Grendel mini action bolt gun should come in at or below 6 lbs. with scope and rings and sling, well, then you'll likely want to get that carbon stalker stock. At least that is my opinion about the factory stock that came on my mini howa.

it could also be that some just like the looks of a fine piece of walnut for a stock, and I get that too. my factory plastic injection molded stock was not very aesthetically good looking. durable, yes. good looking, no. others may not care about the looks, only the durability and functionality.

I suspect Legacy Sports International chose the path they did, originally, to bring the rifle to market at a specific price point to be competitive with the CZ527 at the time, or the Yugo M85. That's probably the reason for the plastic bottom metal too. when you get to the bottom line, that is the bottom line. LSI is trying to run a business in a competitive environment. The plastic injection molded factory stock and bottom metal were probably conscious choices to meet a price point.

so, depending upon what features and aesthetics are important to you, there may be nothing wrong with the factory stock. Or if you think light weight is important for the mini howa bolt gun, get the new carbon stalker, it will be a pretty light weight rig when you're done with it I suspect. And if pretty walnut stock is your thing, there are vendors that can supply that too.
best to you,
-tdbru

[tdbru]

I got my stocks mixed up. the carbon stalker stock weighed 16oz, not 23-24 so that's saving 1 1/4 lbs from the factory stock.
apologies,
tdbru

[northdude]

https://youtu.be/IAdR9ezUPgg

[CJW]

[Harpoon1]

I have a mini that came in a Boyd's stock. I'm looking to make it a little lighter for hiking the mountains, but trying to do it on a budget. I've seen people deride the stocks LSI provides, but I have these questions:
* What is actually wrong with them. I see a lot of references to o them having flaws, but few details on what the flaws of are.
* Anyone know what they weigh?

[Stinky Coyote]

Pendleton or the carbon from stocky's will get the weight under 20 oz for stocks, those are your two lightweight options as far as I know, they should be 17-19oz. The factory stock is a big ole plastic pig and I haven't found Boyd's stuff an advantage in weight at all

[Old Bob]

First thing I noticed when I got my mini Howa was the barrel touched the left side of the stock barrel channel. It looked like I'd have to relieve the channel to get the barrel free floating. But, with the stock bolts loosened, I could move the barrel to the right enough to center it in the channel & then re-tighten the bolts. This had to be done with wedge between the barrel & stock so the barrel wouldn't slip back to the left when the bolts were tightened. It seemed to naturally want to go left when tightened. I eventually glass bedded the action to the stock so it centered the barrel every time it was removed & re-installed without have to use the wedge.

Then I got a Pendleton stock to make the rifle lighter. Well, that required more stock work. My Howa mini has the heavy 20" barrel. The Pendleton stock barrel channel was too narrow for my barrel. Had to widen the channel to get the action & barrel fully seated in the stock. It's a nice snug, free float fit now & doesn't appear to need bedding. I replaced the bottom metal first with DIP metal bottom to use OEM Howa mags. That was OK but I sure didn't like those Howa mags. I now have both Jefferson Outdoors flat bottom & CZ magazine metal trigger guards. I'll try both & see which one I like best. I'm leaning to the CZ bottom metal 'cause loading rounds into the rifle between the scope & the top of the receiver takes some dexterity with the flat bottom metal & I have big fingers & thumbs.

[Teodoro]

Thank you, everyone for your replies. It's wonderful to have such a specific question and get direct, useful answers.
In my case, I have the heavy barrel action, and I put a 4 to 16 on top. It's the best-shooting rifle I've ever owned. As it sits, It weighs just about 9 lb. I think it's wonderful for watching a powerline cut, but I'm hoping to do some hiking into some taller mountains next fall. Given I'm starting with the heavy barrel, and given I do most of my hunting and flat river bottoms, it doesn't really seem like a great idea to try to squeeze every last ounce out for a super light stalking rifle, but I would like to make it a bit lighter.
I'm kind of noodling on a simpler idea: pick up a plastic stock, maybe take a Dremel to it -- never done that so not sure how tough it would be -- and then put a Weaver K6 on top.
I think I could clear half a pound on the scope, and half a pound on the stock, maybe a bit more if I cut some.
I think that would be a reasonable path to a lighter, but not ultralight gun.
Y'all please tell me why I'm wrong.

[LRRPF52]

[tdbru]

Teodero,
I am not aware of a "plastic stock" that would shed significant weight over the factory injection molded one. the factory one with plastic bottom hardware measured 2 1/4 lbs on my scale. If I recall, a Bell&Carlson weighs about the same. Boyd's wood stocks are about that too, and I'm not sure about the various chassis stocks on the market but I am assuming they are at least as heavy as the factory stock, if not more. But I could be wrong on the chassis stocks because I've not looked into it. The only way I found to reduce the weight a bunch was to go with the Stocky's carbon fiber stock. I understand the stock from Pendelton is similar.

I do recall seeing a thread on the forum about someone cutting the end cap off of the forend, cutting a section out of the forend, and glueing the forend end cap back on to shorten the forend some. But I am not sure how much weight one could get rid of that way. Going too far in that regard might adversely affect handling and shootability as well.

So I am unaware of a plastic stock that is, I assume, inexpensive, that sits between the factory stock and the Stocky's Carbon Fiber stock in regards to weight. If you find one perhaps post on the forum for others edification.

As far as I know, most of the aftermarket stocks for the mini are expensive enough that one might as well get exactly what you want in terms of features, aesthetics, and/or weight. None of them are inexpensive to me.

you can lighten up your rig by considering the Talley alloy ring mounts (2 oz for both if 1" scope, 2.2 oz for a 30mm tube if I recall correctly) and a lighter weight scope as you indicated. You can find some Leupold scopes that are pretty light if you poke around in their catalog awhile. or find a used Leupold FXII 4x33 fixed power scope. they come in at 9 oz if I recall and Leupold has a lifetime warranty. I have bought used Leupy's and sent them in for a refurb and saved some coin. They also made a light weight 2-7x which I think they've dropped as of late, but again, find a used one on Craigs' list or something like that and send it in to get refurb'd.

As I mentioned, the only lighter weight stock that I am aware of are the carbon fiber models. The plastic bottom hardware is light weight, but not very durable. over tighten the action screws just a little and you'll crack the bottom hardware around the action screw holes. Most of the aftermarket bottom hardware is aluminum that I'm aware of. it'll be a wee bit heavier, but lots more durable. the tradeoff is yours to make.

best to you,
-tdbru

[Teodoro]

Tdbru,
I apologize for being unclear. By "plastic stock" I meant either an OEM take off or one of the stocks currently out of stock at Brownells.
The Boyd's stock I have lists at 2.85 pounds sans any bottom metal. So even just swapping to an OEM with no cutting would likely cut about half a pound, possibly a bit more.

[Stinky Coyote]

Tdbru,
I apologize for being unclear. By "plastic stock" I meant either an OEM take off or one of the stocks currently out of stock at Brownells.
The Boyd's stock I have lists at 2.85 pounds sans any bottom metal. So even just swapping to an OEM with no cutting would likely cut about half a pound, possibly a bit more.

I could be wrong but the stock most people discuss and comes on the bulk of the Howa's is a hogue, it's plastic, and heavy and yes your Boyd's will also be a tank...many reasons the main oem plastic stocks are not liked are many, weight, fit, bendy, bulky. It's like putting a nice 4 cylinder honda engine in a full size bread truck. As stated everywhere on the net, Legacy sports has no clue what North American markets want. Don't stop at the oem stock, if you are going to make a change...to actually suit your goals and to suit the dang action/barrel itself....jump right to the Pendleton or the stocky's carbon. You're wasting your time with the plastic, there's so much material, bulk, and thickness the best way to trim would down would be an angle grinder, your time is worth more than that...just save for the proper alternatives that should have come on these in the first place.

[Teodoro]

SC,

I think that's a very fair point. My solution described above would put more than $200, maybe a fair bit more, into the rifle for a pound of weight, all using second- or third-choice parts. Maybe I should save for a Stocky's second instead.

As someone who grew up using bottom of the barrel gear, I do have a hard time putting very much money into something I might fall down a mountain with. But. In this case it seems like maybe trying to cheap out will just result in me going in circles.

[Stinky Coyote]

SC,

I think that's a very fair point. My solution described above would put more than $200, maybe a fair bit more, into the rifle for a pound of weight, all using second- or third-choice parts. Maybe I should save for a Stocky's second instead.

As someone who grew up using bottom of the barrel gear, I do have a hard time putting very much money into something I might fall down a mountain with. But. In this case it seems like maybe trying to cheap out will just result in me going in circles.

should have got a ruger American Ranch, they needed nothing out of the box, that's why I'm a fan of them, I can live with them happily right out of the box...the howa's I can't, need triple the spend to get them proper, so maybe sell it while you can, grab a ruger American and that's the easy button without killing your wallet? they are of similar cost out of the gate, heck maybe someone will trade you?