please enlighten me

[mnhntr]

So I am new on here and I am in the process of building a complete rifle and a second upper. I bought a BHW .264LBC barrel for the first build and don't want to post in the wrong place or get on the wrong side of anyone as it seems this site has a lot of conflict about things.

I guess what I am asking is if a guy is running a .264 LBC chamber instead of the Grendel (same thing IMHO) is it ok to post in the Grendel forums or is it supposed to be only in the wildcat based forum?

[LRRPF52]

There really isn't a lot of conflict, and it's very friendly here. A lot of people have .264 LBC and don't really care, as long as they do want they want them to do.

There are different .264 LBC chambers as well. The Les Baer chamber is actually called the .264 LBC-AR. The necks are .295", with a conventional target leade and parallel freebore. Les optimized the chamber to work well with his 123gr SMK load, custom loaded for him by Black Hills.

As such, the .264 LBC-AR chambers shoot the 123gr A-MAX very well, and most shoot the 123gr SST just fine too. Many handloads have been developed for the .264 LBC chambers that provide better results than the users thought they would get.

You are totally welcome to post without concern for what type of chamber you have. The only issues we have had are with people that doubled down on insisting on unsafe behavior, or personal attacks and open hostility to the site, and those have been few and far between.

[Sputnik]

mnhntr, I have 1 SAAMI PF Neptune V Grendel, and two variants. One from a member that sold me his out of spec Lilja barrel from the group buy that I purchased knowing this. The other a Liberty barrel that I thought would be SAAMI, but was dealt a variant and now is a scraped chamber. In all three cases, my questions were answered politely, and a lot of wisdom gained from several members on this Forum. NEVER was I ostracized, or belittled about my questions or my chambers. Go ahead and ask, learn and enjoy. If you still feel threatened, there are threads in the subforum called Grendel-Based Wildcats and Variants that surely would pertain. BTW, I am a central Mn native from Little Falls...getting cold up there these days. Enjoy and stay warm!

[mnhntr]

I have found nothing but helpful answers here. I was just making sure of where to post being the rifles are not actual Grendel's and I was not sure if that one section of the forum was the only place I should post. Thanks guys.

[PigOPs]

I have found nothing but helpful answers here. I was just making sure of where to post being the rifles are not actual Grendel's and I was not sure if that one section of the forum was the only place I should post. Thanks guys.

That subforum was created when all of the Grendel II came about. Before that, all chambers (whether SAAMI or 264LBC or 6.5CSS and the like) shared the forum. I can't remember why now but some of the mods thought it would be useful. I would post wherever you think is applicable and IF for some reason a mod doesn't they will move it.

ETA: I have been around the forum for several years but my post count/join date was reset with the recent site issue.

ETA: Bwaites just cleared this up in another thread. Looks like my memory is not very good.

[Sputnik]

I have found nothing but helpful answers here. I was just making sure of where to post being the rifles are not actual Grendel's and I was not sure if that one section of the forum was the only place I should post. Thanks guys.

There is also a search engine that I have found helpful. Full of historic topics found in this Forum. It will find threads that address load development, problems, hints, and just about any issue you can think of. I think it is called:

http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=016368947416500061353:paqd_0xcu1o&hl=en

If you want to view my three builds that I spoke of earlier, you may look in "my Profile" and view my two albums.

[bwaites]

That subforum was created when all of the Grendel II came about. Before that, all chambers (whether SAAMI or 264LBC or 6.5CSS and the like) shared the forum. I can't remember why now but some of the mods thought it would be useful. I would post wherever you think is applicable and IF for some reason a mod doesn't they will move it.

ETA: I have been around the forum for several years but my post count/join date was reset with the recent site issue.

Well, sort of. We actually wanted a place for the things like .20 Grendel, 6mm AR, 6mm AR Turbo, 7mm Grendel, etc. to be discussed.

The various chamber variants were initially put there because some wouldn't shoot factory ammo, and we hoped that people could discuss how to load for them seperately.

Most all the LBC and similar variants now shoot factory ammo just fine, and we've sort of migrated to the thought that since they do so, loading should be essentially the same (assuming the normal rifle to rifle variance) and there isn't a real reason to discuss them seperately, so feel free to discuss LBC's and the other chambers that work with factory ammo wherever Grendel SAAMI is discussed.

[GSPHunter]

mnhntr,

I would be interested in what your thoughts and experiences are with your build and loads. I bought a J&T kit last year that for quite a while I assumed was a saami chamber, until the sabre defense upper showed up this week and I started looking at COL's for 123sst's and 140SGK......My J&T is at least .045" longer! No wonder I get an easy looking 2360FPS for the 140gn Gamekings, and the sst's shoot best at a col of 2.295" ( hits the lands 2.350!) With the sabre upper, the 123sst's are kissing the lands at ~2.297"

Like others have said, the only times anybody has gotten really dogmatic is when somebody starts "pushing" a view of reality that could get people hurt. I'm willing to bet a lot of us have posted data in the regular reloading forum that is based on a non saami spec chamber.

[Bwild97]

Is the length of leade a part of the SAAMI Spec.?

[PigOPs]

Is the length of leade a part of the SAAMI Spec.?

It's certainly on the SAAMI Grendel drawing. (http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC...%20Grendel.pdf) However there are tolerances built in to the drawing that would lead me to assume the leade could change some depending upon where the reamer fell in those tolerances.

I could be totally wrong but I've studied that drawing pretty closely.

[Bwild97]

OK, I see that leade is certainly in the drawing. Interesting that I always thought my J&T (E.R. Shaw) barrel had a SAAMI spec chamber untill I started loading for my Saber barrel from PF. I have never really studied that drawing and looking at it now; bearing in mind what I have been getting from doing OAL measurements from the PF chambered "Saber" I see that my J&T is not exactly to spec. With the only difference I can tell is the length at which I can load COAL, the J&T being ave. of about .030" longer. I guess i'll have to compare them again after I put 4000 rnds through that "Saber".

[GSPHunter]

With the only difference I can tell is the length at which I can load COAL, the J&T being ave. of about .030" longer. I guess i'll have to compare them again after I put 4000 rnds through that "Saber".

Bwild97, I suppose that could be just throat erosion and tolerance stacking.....Looking at the saami drawing. The +.015" length tolerance, and then maybe a bore thats +.0003" bigger, which adds another ~.0115" to the leade at an angle of 1.5degrees. Adding both up would give a difference in COL of maybe .026"......

Notice by the spec that "all chamber length tolerances are +.015" and should not be added to the headspace tolerance of +.010". in reality, I suspect that that is really hard to keep in check and so if the reamer is a little long, everything is going to end up a little long.

I don't think its a huge difference other than I doubt commercial ammunition would shoot its best in the J&T, but thats not really an issue for me because nobody in the lesser 48 will ship it up to Fairbanks, and the nearest store that stocks it is 300 miles away :-)

[GSPHunter]

Looking at the .5degree portion of the throat, a groove bore increase of .0003" would change the length of that portion or the throat by .0344" using the same reamer and the same headspace! So I guess that it is possible that my J&T could meet the saami standard and just be headspaced on the long side with a +.0003" bore.


{edit!} after thinking a bit more about this, I've decided that It's been too long since high school Trig.....a plus .0003" bore would only be .00015" difference on one side, so the leade differences at best should be cut in half for the saami spec........so I'm back to thinking that my J&T chamber is out of spec! I'll take a little long over a little short any day :-)

[mnhntr]

mnhntr,

I would be interested in what your thoughts and experiences are with your build and loads. I bought a J&T kit last year that for quite a while I assumed was a saami chamber, until the sabre defense upper showed up this week and I started looking at COL's for 123sst's and 140SGK......My J&T is at least .045" longer! No wonder I get an easy looking 2360FPS for the 140gn Gamekings, and the sst's shoot best at a col of 2.295" ( hits the lands 2.350!) With the sabre upper, the 123sst's are kissing the lands at ~2.297"

Like others have said, the only times anybody has gotten really dogmatic is when somebody starts "pushing" a view of reality that could get people hurt. I'm willing to bet a lot of us have posted data in the regular reloading forum that is based on a non saami spec chamber.

I will let you know how it goes. I shoot a .260rem for long range, but this is a multi-purpose rifle for my step son (9 yrs old) to hunt deer and coyotes and do some long range leagues with me. I wanted a caliber to share the .264 bullets I use in the .260 and something that would be 1k yd capable. I was going to go with the 6.5DTI but the LBC/Grendel seemed to be a better choice. I have never used BHW barrels but thought since they have a good reputation and will likely allow for slightly faster velocity I couldn't go wrong. I will build the second upper for me after I get his up and running.

[GSPHunter]

Sounds like you've done you're homework, Keep us informed! As to performance on game, I think you'll be impressed with the Grendel. I didn't notice one difference on caribou between a heart lung shot with a .338wm at 180yds vs a lung only shot with the Grendel at 50yd :-)