6.5 Grendel II ~vs~ regular grendel.....?

[Sniper338]

I know its been discussed, ive searched, but all the threads were jibberish and no one really seemed to have an answer at the beginning of the year...

what is this grendel II chambering for? From what i understamd it does not work correctly with regular grendel ammunition...?

Can someone or a few set me straight with correct info please?




Main reason i ask is im slowly building a "on the cheap" a grendel for my uncle... and came across those AR stoner barrels from midway made by satern....

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

Try this Thread (http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showt...del-II-chamber).

[Sniper338]

Try this Thread (http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showt...del-II-chamber).

Ive already seen that thread.... its what i called jibberish and talk... im looking more for just an easy simple conclusion here from everyone has finally figured out about it...

more along the lines of: "just dont do it, stay away from it", or "its made for these kind of bullets so they are closer to the lands", or " it does not work correctly with regular redding grendel dies", etc etc....

[Sniper338]

I dont know what a "compound throat" is....

[am4966]

Grendel II has to do with the bolt, and I believe the Grendel II chambers are 264lbc which will fire factory ammo. Someone will be along to clarify things better than me.

[jurassic]

Grendel II has to do with the bolt, and I believe the Grendel II chambers are 264lbc which will fire factory ammo. Someone will be along to clarify things better than me.

I believe he is talking about the chamber not the bolt. Sniper338, keep looking there have been numerous discussions about the different chambers that will fire Grendel factory ammo. In a nutshell, the chamber of Liberty/AR-Stoner barrels was changed by the manufacturer after barrels did meet specifications of the saami spec. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong there have been numerous threads about the differences.

[Sniper338]

Its sounding more like its better to just stay away from it all together...

[cory]

I know its been discussed, ive searched, but all the threads were jibberish and no one really seemed to have an answer at the beginning of the year...

what is this grendel II chambering for? From what i understamd it does not work correctly with regular grendel ammunition...?

Can someone or a few set me straight with correct info please?


Main reason i ask is im slowly building a "on the cheap" a grendel for my uncle... and came across those AR stoner barrels from midway made by satern....

The "Grendel II" chamber was nothing more than a cover your ass exercise by the company you should have seen mentioned in the "jiberish". That company put out a lot of economy barrels with short throats, did not meet the SAAMI spec, that were potentially catastrophically hazardous to the shooter. Rather than admitting their mistake, recalling the barrels and replacing them, they took the stance that they were within spec and the problem was the design of the Grendel Chamber. However, they were going to take the "higher" ground and offer to ream out your chamber to a "better" chamber. There's a lot of bad blood between AA and Satern that explains some of this.

The "Grendel II" is actually one of the many chambers Bill A. experimented with until he settled on the Grendel chamber with the compound throat for best accuracy through a wide range of bullets.

The compound throat is a design solution that is unique to the Grendel. I maybe mistaking about it being unique, but at most it's rare. It has shown to be extremely effectiver. However, reamer makers sometimes hate it because it makes their jobs more difficult.

[Sniper338]

The "Grendel II" chamber was nothing more than a cover your ass exercise by the company you should have seen mentioned in the "jiberish". That company put out a lot of economy barrels with short throats, did not meet the SAAMI spec, that were potentially catastrophically hazardous to the shooter. Rather than admitting their mistake, recalling the barrels and replacing them, they took the stance that they were within spec and the problem was the design of the Grendel Chamber. However, they were going to take the "higher" ground and offer to ream out your chamber to a "better" chamber. There's a lot of bad blood between AA and Satern that explains some of this.

The "Grendel II" is actually one of the many chambers Bill A. experimented with until he settled on the Grendel chamber with the compound throat for best accuracy through a wide range of bullets.

The compound throat is a design solution that is unique to the Grendel. I maybe mistaking about it being unique, but at most it's rare. It has shown to be extremely effectiver. However, reamer makers sometimes hate it because it makes their jobs more difficult.

sounds good. Stay away from it is what i understand. Thats what i was basically understanding, just wanted a good straight shooter answer...
it suprises me that satern would do that because i run satern barrel i had custom made and its flawless and shoots amazing.... on the other hand i am starting to get quite fed up with satern now days because their service absolutely sucks. No one answers their phones, they were a year out wait 4 years ago so i would hate to see their production now...


Its my opinion, but it sounds like they took on too much teaming up with midway to make mass quantities of barrels for as small of a shop as they are... quality went down the toilet trying to make more barrels faster...

[VASCAR2]

The compound throat helps accept a wider variety of different shape bullets in an effort to center the bullet into the barrel. The 264 LBC chamber was designed to shoot the 123 grain Sierra Match King best. AR Stoner/Liberty sold a large number of out of spec 6.5 Grendel chambered barrels. They could not re cut the compound throat into their previously short chambered barrels. Liberty basically changed to the Grendel II chamber as a fix for their short out of spec compound throat 6.5 Grendel barrels. Liberty basically lengthened the free bore so their 6.5 barrels can supposedly shoot long heavy bullets accurately (like 140 grain or heavier). Basically this a marketing strategy to cover their previous mistake. I really think the Grendel II chamber is cheaper and easier to machine with less chance of barrels not functioning. Since the 6.5 Grendel is industry standard it has to conform to Alexander Arms chamber design to be marked 6.5 Grendel.

[PigOPs]

To answer one of your questions: the Grendel II will shoot factory ammo fine. In fact, there will probably be loads that shoot great in it. It just will most likely not be as versatile across a range of weights and shapes of projectiles. The compound throat was designed to align a variety of projectiles to the freebore. Hopefully some of that makes sense.

Personally if I were to choose a traditional (non-compound) throat I would go with .264lbc because it's neck dimension is tighter which should in theory aid accuracy. However, I reload so I can Taylor a load to a barrel.

Vascar- beat me to it

[jurassic]

As you can see there is a lot of emotion associated with this debacle. Everyone has opinions and the facts are what they are, with that said, I would still love to shoot something made by Satern.

This forum has all the info you will need to make a decision on your own. Lilja has proven to be an excellent choice for many of us lately!

[Sniper338]

10-4 its a no go for sure... better to just stay away from it... the only reason it spiked my curiosity was because of the price of ar stoner barrela at midway...

Me personally, id never EVER buy a cheap end barrel... i like to pay for quality because im a freak when it comes to how i want my personal guns to shoot...

i just needed the info to be informed for future stuff...

thank you all for the info! Im good to go now.

[JASmith]

I dont know what a "compound throat" is....

The debate has been largely fueled by actors who don't want to or can't cut a reamer to the SAAMI specification and are able to justify the reticence by indicating that the standard throat produces 'better accuracy' on the bench. The claim being true for some bullet designs obscures the true value of the SAAMI-spec chamber's ability to generate excellent accuracy over the full range of 6.5 caliber bullet weights.

Most chambers have a constant diameter freebore followed by a tapered section taking the the throat down to bore diameter.

This works well most of the time provided the freebore is kept short enough that one can seat the bullet close to the start of the tapered section (also start of the lands).

This arrangement gives the best accuracy possible out of a barrel for bolt action and single shot rifles PROVIDED that the seating depth is adjusted correctly and that all other precision hand loading techniques are used.

The AR15 magazine constrains the cartridge length to 2.260" per the SAAMI specification. The result is excessive jump for some bullets. Bill Alexander and the team he worked with noted that some of the military rifles with reputations for excellent accuracy had an ~0.5 degree taper. They also noted that a taper of about 1.5 degrees would result in better and more consistent pressure build up for the 50,000 psi regime the Grendel operates in.

This dilemma was resolved by introducing a short 0.5 degree taper where the freeborn normally exists, followed by the conventional 1.5 degree taper.. The two tapered sections create a "compound throat" and answers the question posed in the quote.

Comparing conventionally throated chambers like the GII and .264 LBC with the 6.5 Grendel, one can readily infer that some bullets will have extraordinarily fine accuracy in the variants, but that some bullets won't shoot as well. The 6.5 Grendel, however, shows excellent accuracy throughout the range of bullets available for the 6.5 caliber even though the variants will do better for some bullets.

Regarding which is better, most shooters won't see a difference whine the bullet design is in the class targeted by the variant throat. Many, if not most, will find the SAAMI spec chamber shoots better across the board.

[Sniper338]

Perfect explaination^^^^^^^ Thank you for that! Understood completely!!