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Looks like a solution looking for a problem IMHO...
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Looks like a solution looking for a problem IMHO... -
Yep - but that type of marketing works all too often. Generate the perception of a problem, provide the solution, and cash in. Oh, wait - that's politics.If it's true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for? -
Oh it already has a mountain of problems. The first is brass. The second is that there are very few bullets for it. The third is that it is made for subsonic work yet very few silencers exist for that bullet diameter. The fourth is that powder options are quite limited and finicky. It is cool looking though.Comment
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No thanks.Comment
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A slightly bigger Blackout.
I'll admit to being sucked-in with the clever Blackout marketing. Two years later and it's like buying a burger and wondering why it doesn't look like the photo above the counter..
For example, that stated 200M is more like 100M. No doubt in their testing if you point the gun to the sky the bullet will make 200M, but after 100M you'd better have a good scope and know exactly what range your target is. Heavy subsonic is rainbow trajectory, plus the Blackout is defined by over-penetration (sold as a marketing plus, until you start shooting game which trot off to die somewhere else). I can only imagine this heavier .416 will be even worse and like the Blackout users will be stuck with projectiles made for supersonic use. Hollow-points and soft points don't open up under 2,000fps.
You can get Blackout rds to yaw as it is. Just load a pointy match rd and they tumble on hitting flesh every time. It's interesting to listen to. No supersonic echo...It's less than 100M so it's a loud slap followed by a zinging sound as the bullet exits the other side. But don't expect the same killing power as a supersonic hunting round.
Hunting subsonic is a very poor proxy to supersonic and unless you are using a suppressor where you really need it (e.g. killing German sentries!) there is no other practical advantage. May as well use a suppressed .22 or 9mm...they are both quieter.Comment
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I've wondered about the advantages of the Blackout. I keep coming back to the fact that my 230 grain .45 round has a bigger meplat, travels at a little slower speed our of my 1911, and actually mushrooms on impact, making it even larger than .45. Shoot that same out of a 16 inch Beretta Storm and it supresses nicely, nearly matches a 220gr Blackout bullet in speed, and is accurate at 100 yards, and is still traveling plenty fast to make a bad guy think twice.
I think the Blackout is a cool idea, I just can't figure out where it would fit in my "useful" arsenal.
Now the Hushpuppy comes along, and ......
And no reason a .45 suppressor wouldn't work just fine on it, if you really wanted one!Comment
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Hornady tests their A-Maxes to ensure each lot will expand at 1000 fps upon entry.Comment
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I could not agree more.Originally posted by bwaites View Post
Your .45 is a larger diameter than my Blackout, and with projectiles designed to work subsonic with decades of bullet manufacturer R&D behind them. The Blackout is a smaller diameter 30cal with supersonic match rds. For example, the Hornady has chosen their 208gr FMJ for their Blackout subsonic ammo. I have no doubt that on hitting flesh the .45 will work better.
At least the Blackout can shoot supersonic also, which is something this .416 'Hushpuppy' cannot do.
Love the sexy name though, 'Hushpuppy'...I already want one!Comment
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Take it from me, subsonic FMJ match rounds do not expand when they hit flesh. They tumble and bend but do not expand.Originally posted by GMinor View Post
Even dedicated subsonic flesh bullets like the 220gr by Outlaw State goes in one side and out the other. You cannot tell the entry hole from the exit, and that's with the few animals that die in the vicinity and do not simply bolt off into the scrub. Subsonic Blackout uses only 3/5 of the SAAMI peak chamber pressure so don't expect bullets to do very much when they get there.Comment
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Where in my statement did I say ANYTHING about a FMJ?Comment
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OK, my apologies, allow me to be absolutely precise.
I have hunted subsonic Blackout with the following projectiles;
Hornady 208gr Amax
Hornady 220gr RN
Berger 210gr Hybrid Match/Hunting
Sierra 220gr SMK
Sierra 225gr SMK
Sierra 220gr RN Pro Hunter
Outlaw State 220gr
None of the animals that I have inspected have had the projectile expand. Admittedly I have not cut open all of them and half simply run off wounded. As I said, subsonic hunting is not the same as supersonic. It's all about shot placement at close range. I have settled on the Sierra 220SMK in my system which is a 1:8twist, 16" carbine gas. They cycle fine and tumble on impact.
So Mr Minor, what subsonic projectiles have you hunted with in your Blackout? You have a strong opinion against someone who has so lets hear it? Any photo's?
(Please note, none of my post is in all-upper-case, but I can 'shout' at you if you want).Comment
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Haven't tried the LeHigh projies, only because they will not cycle in my system.Originally posted by KentuckyBuddha View Post
My systems subsonic window of available projectiles is 210-225gr. LeHigh produces two designs of subsonic 30cal projies and they are both too light for my gun. They make the Controlled Fracturing in two 30cal weights; 170gr and 174gr. The other one is their ME (maximum expansion), however this is also too light at 200gr.
The Blackout is inherently under-gassed with the large diameter barrel dropping the chamber pressure quicker than smaller calibres (.223 and 6.5). In its early days barrel manufacturers were pretty much making all barrels with carbine-length gas ports (including the one I have). By the time the bullet passes the 7" mark there's not a lot of pressure left to cycle the action. This is especially evident when using subsonics which are loaded to only 3/5 the SAAMI peak chamber pressure. If I load anything under 210gr it will either be too fast/supersonic and cycle, or be subsonic but with not enough pressure to cycle. At the top end anything more than 225gr and you risk not having enough case capacity with the length of pointy projies (the COAL is fixed at 57mm due to the internal length of an AR mag), or being too heavy for the 1:8twist and so being unstable. Barrel manufacturers are now selling Blackouts with pistol-length gas ports and slightly faster twists 1:7.
Getting back to LeHigh. Even if I could load their rounds I doubt they will be any different to a .45cal handgun hollow-point. Probably the wider 45cal diameter will slow quicker in flesh than the 30cal Blackout.
Both LeHigh and Outlaw State subsonic bullets are expensive at about $2 each.
My thoughts...I like the pointy projies with plenty of mass at the back of the bullet. On hitting flesh when subsonic they want to quickly reverse and that causes the tumble.
I forgot on the previous post to include the 200gr Lapua subsonic. Again, this does not cycle in my gun but in pistol-length gas systems you could get it to. Regardless it does not do anything except laser-beam through flesh.
I like those Twang-n-bang clips. I find he is very fair and reasonable with his reviews.Comment
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They are certainly expensive and he mentions that they would not be a great idea for home-defense for that reason. It appears they just have a long OAL yhea? It definitely proves the concept that it is possible though. Perhaps pill with a polymer tip and perhaps with the grooves in the inside of the tip would give the same soft tissue effects without sacrificing aerodynamics or feeding. If "holding together" and over-penetration is what you want, the Lehigh seems to do that in spades too.
Surely if one company can make/have made pills like this one or many of us could do the same with improvements.Comment
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Agreed.
Unless you are hunting bigger game than humans I reckon all current 30cal offerings are prone to over-penetration. I would however like to see a compressed lead powder bullet similar to the CorBon Safety Slug. Corbon uses small lead shot with a polymer expander ball at the front. I'm thinking the same design but use lead powder instead of shot for a heavier round, and so make the weight threshold needed to cycle an AR.Comment
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