My Worries

[JarHeadRule]

Guys I must say reading through all of other forums and info going on out there about the grendel I am worried. I built and my own grendel and I am very happy with it but reading all the doom and gloom stuff out there I am worried that the support for it wont be there when I need it. Rumors of barrel companies not making barrels, ammo companies not making ammo or are not going to make ammo. The issue of finding mags. I really have grown tired of reading the haters out there on other forums and sometimes here but I have to say some of this stuff I read makes me worry about the future of things. I am a new guy here so I guess some of the older guys here have been there and done that but I guess I like to have that warm and fuzzy feeling about the stuff I own and its future. Ok guys someone make me feel better LOL.

[kamrr4437]

Im not saying that it is doomed. But look at it this way alls it will be is a barrel and bolt change to a different caliber. But i dont think the Grendel is going anywhere.

[Whelenon]

The 6.5G take the AR-15 platform up to a new level. The ballistics are excellent. Brass, bullets and barrels are available. I've got mine and very happy with it. I'm not going to worry about the guys that won't get out of there comfort zone, something new that pushes the boundaries must be bad. If it weren't for the Grendel I would've had to go to the AR-10 that would weight another 5lbs, no thanks. For my intended use this little guy performs like the big boys in a nice light weight package. IMHO THWT

[JASmith]

In my view, the Grendel beats the tar out of both the .223 Remington and the 6.8 SPC. Especially true if you're deer hunting. If you haven't seen it you can see a discussion on the Grendel for medium game hunting here: http://shootersnotes.com/grendelmani...or-large-game/.

You'll also see that the Grendel can give even the .243 Winchester and .257 Roberts runs for their money!

[z06man]

I've seen nothing to take it's place, so I can't imagine it going away. There is no other AR round that I've seen that can match it in the long range game and that alone should keep it going. Plus it is a great hunting and varmint round. Until something bests it, I don't think it's popularity will fade.

[warped]

Those who speak of the Grendel going away are simply wishing it were so, jealousy has a lot to do with this.

It is not going to fade away, it is merely gaining strength as time goes by and more rifles are built.

Hornady has no problem selling all the Grendel ammo they want to make, Wolf MPT, Lapua and others are selling rapidly as well.

There may be a development this year that makes the Grendel a true mainstay of all shooting for decades to come.

[JarHeadRule]

Dont get me wrong guys I have no plans to give my grendel up. Im just worried about all the trash that i see on other forums and right now I dont see alot of other vendors making mags and other stuff. Even reading on here about the ammo and all that garbage just makes me feel a little uneasy. It is hard to find ammo where I am at. If I want it I either have to order or wait for show and even then it can be slim pickings at the shows. I guess thats why i have my ars in 223 and 308 where I can grab ammo off the shelf. Of course they dont shoot as good as my grendel.

[txgunner00]

I doubt the caliber is going away but the loss of a premium barrel maker certainly doesn't help it's progress. I believe the demand is enough to attract another manufacturer to take it's place.

[michaelmew]

JHR-
here is my humble perspective. let people argue. who cares what is said on other boards. sometimes it is good factual info and sometimes is is bs. you seem like the kind of guy that can sift out the crap and get the good info you are seeking. the mags are out there, and there are ways to modify other more popular mags. i know that when i complain about my grendel mags not working correctly its only because i feel like i should not have to make any modifications myself to a "grendel" mag. replacement parts could be an issue, but there arent a lot of grendel specific parts in the first place- as i'm sure you know the beauty of the AR15 platform is its modularity.

As far as ammo goes, the cases can be made from 7.62x39 (one of the most prevelant rounds in the world) and there are currently plenty of bullet options. i guess i am like youi in that it is hard to find ammo where i am at. Walmart never has it, neither does Dick's or Academy or Sports Authority. I did buy some from Cabela's once and i saw an empty spot on the shelf at Bass Pro. my point is: go online! i watch these boards as much as i can because our little community is great about sharing internet deals when they come along. and, you don't pay that much more than you would in the store. i know www.natchezss.com usually has good prices as well as www.midsouthshooterssupply.com

those are the reasons i believe the Grendel can never die. it won't always be the most convenient round to shoot, but i think we all knew that when we chose it.

-michaelmew

[LRRPF52]

Gents,

I've seen a lot of demand for this cartridge/platform show up in many ways. For me, it allows me to avoid building any .308 AR10's and use that platform for farther reaching cartridges, since I can get .308 ballistics out of the more affordable and smaller/lighter AR15 platform.

I have seen nothing but increases in ammo and brass availability as well. A popular local gun store carries Wolf & Hornady loadings in several bullet weights, and my favorite reloading supply place carries Lapua brass.

I have also noticed a lot of new shooters to the AR15 start their first build chambered in Grendel, which is a promising sign for the longevity of the cartridge.

Right now, there seem to be plenty of economy and precision barrels available as well.

The biggest change that I think needs to be made going forward is an improved bolt geometry that will actually support this cartridge, with more mass around the bolt lug juncture to the bolt body. The sooner that is addressed and standardized, the better off we'll all be.

LRRPF52

[LHClarke]

Yeah, I agree with alot of what is being said here in this thread. You have nothing to worry about. If certain companys stop producing ammo (unlikely as they are profit motivated), you can always form your own brass. The round is probably the best assault rifle cartridge EVER put together. I am not going to say "invented" because in my mind that is a stretch. I must admit, I have been VERY critical of the "inventor" or "engineer" of the cartridge because I believe honesty and being up-front about things is always number 1, and it was several people that came up with it. Most things that are this perfect in their utility and nature are not thought of by one mind, but several. Read the history............. At the same time, I have been misleading in my lifetime and I have also taken credit for positive things that were not my sole doing or idea, so I simply shouldn't have thrown mud at other humans who have done the same, and deserve credit for the part that was played. That being said, I threw mud and slandered because of anxiety and anger also. I mean the round flies like a .300 Win. Mag., Hits like a .308 (minimum) and fits in the most hand Assault rifle Ever conceived. I LOVE the round and what is stands for, what it means, and to me it's kind of like protecting the Constitution and Country from enemies BOTH foreign AND DOMESTIC. If anyone seems to be endangering the future of my beloved Grendel, I get testy at the least. Sorry. It's just that way. I don't claim to be without ignorance of the facts in every situation, and that is my achilles heel. It's the diarreah of mouth. My blood gets going and then.....my mouth. (or in this case, my fingers?) I said some stuff on another forum I now regret......it happens. We are all human. I love Bill Alexander because he had the engineering genius to RECOGNIZE what he had been shown, and formed a company (not cheap) and got the word out. He stood on the mountain top and shouted! To the BENEFIT of us ALL!!! So he deserves his just rewards. Whatever financial gain and reputational kudo's he can acquire, BUT....................now it belongs to the unwashed masses who love utility and ballistics. He should take care to not single handedly destroy or bring hardship to such a jewel, such a marvelous union of brass and copper and carbon. Regardless of whether or not he was the Initial Messiah of the caliber. History will and has recorded that he, Bill Alexander, was the ONE, the FIRST to say; "Hey, this is the pinnacle, what more can be had out of Eugene's marvelous machine, the AR-15? Nothing, this is the ROUND." Why the U.S. Government has not come knocking is beyond my mortal reasoning. It should be re-dubbed the "6.5 Freedom"!

I doubt that you have anything to worry about. Take pride in the fact that you were able to look at a set of numbers and realize the absolute perfection that is the 6.5 Grendel. YOU have the insight. Straighten your backbone man! Buck Up Soldier! Make it work, F-*-C-K the NaySayers!!!! They have nothing! They are nothing!

It will all work out in the end man.

LHClarke

[longdayjake]

I too am a little bit upset about the loss of some premium barrel makers. Everything is done in secret with the Grendel and that really gets on my nerves. I wish we could know what was part of the new agreement that the barrel makers didn't like. Instead it seems to be hidden. In my experience the only reason to hide something is to keep yourself from looking bad. That said, as long as there are ammo manufacturers for the grendel there will be grendel rifles being built. However, we do need a decent mag. The Grendel is like a drug. No matter how upset I get at it I keep coming back for more.

[bwaites]

Hmmm....

While it is nice to be able to order a premium barrel right from AA, you have to realize that AA was the exception rather than the rule in that regard.

Who makes DPMS, Colt, Stag Arms, Armalite, LMT, etc. barrels? You can't special order high end barrels from them. We all know that Les Baer makes Les Baer barrels, and he makes very good ones, but you can't order a Krieger, or Bartlein, or Satern from his company either.

Not only that, but I've never seen any of them posting information about their business agreements. Looking at what was happening, I have my suspicions, and if you really look at what Satern and others were offering you could figure it out also.

So long as AA builds rifles, and Bill Alexander is the quality control guy, I would suspect that AA will always have premium barrels, regardless of whether we know who builds them. I've never even heard the typical complaints about the "budget" barrels. Everyone seems satisfied with even the least expensive option, and we see lots of guys on here talking about how their Shaw or Sabre stainless and Sabre chromed barrels shoot sub-MOA groups.

If you are shooting an AR, and you are shooting less than MOA groups, can anyone really complain very much?

With Wolf making ammo, and Hornady making ammo, dies, and everything else related, and with the number of quality die makers all making reloading equipment, there is little chance the Grendel will go away in our lifetime.

[longdayjake]

Rereading my post it makes me sound a little more harsh than I intended to be. I basically just wanted to say that I too get a little frustrated with all the setbacks the Grendel has been subject to. That and I believe it will be around for a very long time.

[pinzgauer]

I wish we could know what was part of the new agreement that the barrel makers didn't like. Instead it seems to be hidden. In my experience the only reason to hide something is to keep yourself from looking bad.

In my work over the years I've been exposed to contracts quite a bit (unfortunately). Given two companies are electing not to renew under the new agreement, they are severing the business relationship with AA. Unless there is a non-disclosure clause in the original contract they they (willingly) signed, there should be no reason that they could not state what term in the new agreement they they did not like.

The fact that they did not, and they did not quote non-disclosure as a reason not to really jumps out at me.

If it was one of the following they should have been able to state it without crossing legal issues:

- increased royalties, licensing fee, or similar
- Demanding production rates that were not acceptable
- Adding penalties regarding the above which were not acceptable, etc

You don't have to expose the contract details, but can normally state the issue in the new contract.

Again, not defending AA blindly, we don't know what they asked for. But the fact the vendors did not simply state the areas they did not agree with is really odd.

One thing is for sure.... independent of having tons of vendors, wildcats with less following then Grendel survived decades. I expect Grendel will do the same, it just fills a niche too well. With AR-15's as cheap as they have ever been, and easy to build I think it will remain popular.

Given the ease of using 7.62x39 brass, I'm not concerned about having fodder either. (But I suspect Hornady will continue mfg of brass/ammo, even if the name changed)

Side note: Someone from AAC responded to a comment I made about 300 whisper/BLK on another forum, stating: "it is a totally different application - pretty much opposites. 6.5 people should not be considering 300 BLK." After thinking about that, I sortof agree..... Just opposite concepts. This was in response to ammo pricing. Seems 300 whisper/BLK even in cheapest FMJ loading from RP is about the same street price as Grendel Hornady, and more than we pay for Wolf MPT. So much for SAAMI leading to cheap ammo. I do think whisper will sell a bunch, but side by side with Grendel I don't see an advantage that would make me switch.