CSS (CompetitionShooting.com) Need current phone Number

[Tom1886]

I need the current phone number of css. I'm looking for 2 of there bolt's to complete a upper that Dtech is building for me (264 LBC) Mikes source from LB has dried up, and I believe he is no longer going to offer the grendel chambering. I've emailed css at
65csstech@bellsouth.net but have gotten no response for the last week. I called
L Walther and they told me alot of boxes do through there shipping department, but have no idea how to contact them> I'm not sure if there bolt will work. Mike told me to \\
that the LB bolt headspaces around .132 .132.5, and must be matched. Alexander Arms bolts headspace at .136+ and are to long. from there web site I see they offer 2 bolts
I hope one will work .
Thanks Tom Z

[bwaites]

I need the current phone number of css. I'm looking for 2 of there bolt's to complete a upper that Dtech is building for me (264 LBC) Mikes source from LB has dried up, and I believe he is no longer going to offer the grendel chambering. I've emailed css at
65csstech@bellsouth.net but have gotten no response for the last week. I called
L Walther and they told me alot of boxes do through there shipping department, but have no idea how to contact them> I'm not sure if there bolt will work. Mike told me to \\
that the LB bolt headspaces around .132 .132.5, and must be matched. Alexander Arms bolts headspace at .136+ and are to long. from there web site I see they offer 2 bolts
I hope one will work .
Thanks Tom Z

Tom, this needs a little explanation, so bear with me.

As I understand it, when Bill Alexander was developing the Beowulf, he examined the 7.62x39 bolts made by Colt, and since he didn't have drawings to work from, he used measurements of those bolts to develop his own variant. They weren't new bolts, since none were available, but he had a couple samples to work with.

The bolt he developed has a face depth of .135. He later was able to access the information from Colt, and found that the wear on the bolts he had caused his measurements to be off a tiny bit, but were still within tolerance, and that bolt worked great for the Beowulf.

As he developed the Grendel, using the 220 Russian as the base cartridge, it had a thicker rim than .223/5.56, and so using that same bolt was a workable solution. This allowed more metal on the end of the extractor, as well, improving its durability.

Thus both the Beowulf and the Grendel have a bolt with a face depth of .135, +/- .001.

The .223/5.56 bolt has a face depth of .124, +/- .001.

Current 7.62x39 bolts are simply opened up 5.56 bolts, and have that same face depth.

Les Baer started by making and selling Grendels, but then developed a proprietary chamber designed to shoot the 123 Sierra and Amax primarily. However, he continued to use the same bolts.

So the Les Baer chamber was designed around that .135 face depth.

Since there may or may not be machining tolerance issues with both the barrel extension and the bolt, it is recommended that they be headspaced and sold as a package, since headspace is set at the installation of the barrel extension.

Thus, there were 2 sets of bolts used for the Grendel and its variants, the actual Grendel/Beowulf bolt, with a face depth of .135 and the 7.62x39 bolt with a face depth of .124.

So far as I can tell, those were the only two bolts ever used. There may be variations in tolerance that allow some difference, and if the barrel extension is cut deep, it may require a .124 bolt vs a .135 Grendel bolt. BUT....I know of no variations that required an in between measurement.

I do know that some have found Sabre barrel which had slightly different measurements, but I always supposed that was simply a manufacturing tolerance issue, not a deviation from the standard.

The current SAAMI standard bolt has worked in both LBC and AA barrels, and CSS has used both the SAAMI standard and the .124 depth bolt, usually at the buyers discretion. Black Hole Weaponry has also sold barrels with both bolt styles, (They call the .124 bolt a TYPE 1, and the .135 a TYPE II).

I haven't heard of anyone making a bolt in between the two, however, and if that is the issue, I suspect that the barrel extension was not set properly.

Hope that helps!


PS....Woody owns both Lothar Walthar and CSS, (or so I was told) so call LW and ask for Woody!

[Castor Troy]

my understanding is that they are all at shot show...

[leopard6.5]

Tom: there at least three Grendel bolts listed on gunbroker.com right now if that helps.

Good luck and great shooting.

Lee