Next AR: 6.5Grendel or 5.56mm?

[A5BLASTER]

I've heard people say that the Steel 5.56 is nothing but problems, but I've personally never had even a single issue. Several thousand rounds of Hornady Steel match, Tulammo, Wolf, etc. and I use brass cased from time to time. I read so much about how horrible the steel cased is, so I decided to run it and I haven't bothered cleaning the barrel since I got the gun back in 2012 IIRC. I did this intentionally because I wanted to have a supply of ammo and cheaper is easier, but I wanted to make sure it was reliable. So far, no problems with either laquer coated or polymer coated cases. And I've gotten it pretty hot a few times. I don't understand how some have "too many problems" and others like me have zero.

I would be willing to bet it's like most things on the net. No first hand experience, most just respew the same drivel they have been told.

To try and get someone to buy what they have.

[Labrat198]

Mostly my opinion as well. 5.56 is cheap, common, and effective; if you have an AR platform, having a 5.56 upper just makes sense.

With the Grendel, at 25-30 cents a shot, I can't even buy reloading bullets for that.

Sorry, off main topic, but MidSouthShootersSupply has some for .27. They call the Match Monsters

[roo_ster]

I don't think you made a bad decision. 5.56 has been around for a long time and ammo makers as well as gun builders have it down solid. I've given up on hunting with mine but they're all 1:7 twist which I don't think helps any with bullet performance. I tried a ton of different bullets and they all shot really well, but on game performance was lacking regardless of bullet weight.

As for the 300BO, unless you're running a can and sub Sonics, I don't see the point. The 7.62x39 shoots faster, hits harder, costs less for ammo, and handles a little haevier bullet. I've read about reliability issues, but I've never experienced any except with a flat nose 30-30 bullet that I could have fixed with a little cleaning on the magazine. From my experience, it isn't picky about what you feed it like the Grendels has been so far. Honestly, I wouldn't be still be using an AR for hunting and I never would have bought a Grendel if I hadn't tried the 7.62x39 in the woods. On paper it doesn't look like much, but the difference in terminal performance is unbelievable when compared to the 5.56. I'm hoping that the Grendel is able to match it in the field and allow longer range.

The doe my daughter shot indicated serious terminal performance with hornady 123gr sst. Lungs were chum and the exit wound the diameter of a quarter. Double naught spy has used lots of commercial ammo and gives positive reviews of hornady 123gr sst, fed fusion 120gr for hunting ammo.

Same buddy who told me about the psa kit also had a line on $0.25 per round brass case 5.56mm.

[lazyengineer]

I would be willing to bet it's like most things on the net. No first hand experience, most just respew the same drivel they have been told.

To try and get someone to buy what they have.

I've seen it first hand - plenty of times. Usually accompanied with "but my gun never jams".

Recent examples that come to mind: went to a three gun match, most of the competitors there seemed serious with all the cool gear. Difference was this 3-gun match allowed steel ammo, so a lot of guys decided to do just that, to save some money. And watched not just one, but two AR's jam up HARD on steel. Multiple times. Both complete with "but my gun never jams". Watching these guys trying to work their gun while under the clock.

I watched someone else drive 4 hours to go a different carbine match, with a gun that never jams, and they decided to shoot steel, which they rarely do. Numerous lock-up jams, again with "but my gun never jams". He switched to brass, and it jammed up even harder. Only after another magazine or so on brass, then it ran 100% again.

Look at the jam rates in the infamous Lucky-Gunner tests.



Steel 5.56 absolutely has a higher rate of jams. Some guys guns run all day just fine, but on average and in general - yea, steel jams.

[A5BLASTER]

I've seen it first hand - plenty of times. Usually accompanied with "but my gun never jams".

Recent examples that come to mind: went to a three gun match, most of the competitors there seemed serious with all the cool gear. Difference was this 3-gun match allowed steel ammo, so a lot of guys decided to do just that, to save some money. And watched not just one, but two AR's jam up HARD on steel. Multiple times. Both complete with "but my gun never jams". Watching these guys trying to work their gun while under the clock.

I watched someone else drive 4 hours to go a different carbine match, with a gun that never jams, and they decided to shoot steel, which they rarely do. Numerous lock-up jams, again with "but my gun never jams". He switched to brass, and it jammed up even harder. Only after another magazine or so on brass, then it ran 100% again.

Look at the jam rates in the infamous Lucky-Gunner tests.



Steel 5.56 absolutely has a higher rate of jams. Some guys guns run all day just fine, but on average and in general - yea, steel jams.

Cool data and all but again no first hand experience.

You watched them have malfunctions. But it wasn't your rifles so you have no way of proving it was the steel case or some coating on the case that caused the issue.

As far as that lucky gunner list. Please that's so they can try to influence what ammo they sell.

[lazyengineer]

Cool data and all but again no first hand experience.

You watched them have malfunctions. But it wasn't your rifles so you have no way of proving it was the steel case or some coating on the case that caused the issue.

As far as that lucky gunner list. Please that's so they can try to influence what ammo they sell.

We live in strange times. Data means nothing; the earth is flat; vaccines don't work.

[worthen86ford]

[Jeepster18_88]

So basically it's horrible ammo because it has a 1:1000 jam average. There's a lot of variables that aren't mentioned in the data such as fire rate and barrel heat, cleaning frequency, chamber dimensions, etc. You have to take into consideration that there are a lot of gun owners that will never shoot 1k rounds in their gun so just saying that it's junk, and leaving out if you are a very high volume shooter, isn't very honest. I consider the fact that there are a lot of people out there that want to shoot but they're on a very tight budget. Telling them that they have to spend twice as much to get reliable ammo, pushes people to avoid the sport due to budget. Thankfully, the brass options have gotten cheaper over the past few years so there's less cost difference, but the budget brass case is less controlled quality wise and I've got a couple that don't have a primer or flash hole, and one that's bent and there's no way that it would chamber. They're Rem UMC and Winchester. I can't remember where I put them, but I kept them for the people that claim factory ammo is more reliable than handloads. I'm not saying that competition shooters should use the steel cased stuff, but I don't think Joe Bob should avoid it for a little plinking or introducing a kid to shooting a rifle where they're only shooting a few magazines worth.

[Wanderson]

[nawagner]

So I didn't say steel was the issue, I said Wolf is the issue. while I haven't run it in the Grendel I've run it in other guns with plenty of first hand problems. Cheap ammo is cheap for a reason.

[roo_ster]

Family already shoots idpa.

Would like to shoot pcc in the future, so an ar9 is a strong possibility for the future. Before that, need to get my daughter an ithaca 37 20ga with plain bbl and full fixed choke first to get ready for pheasants in the fall.

[Cereal Thriller]

In the world of gas guns it depends on what you want, they are nothing more than lego's for adults.

Do you want long range, short range? To hunt with or just bang steel? Want big bullet or small bullet?

I have more fun with my .223 wylde build than all the rest of mine. This includes my 7.5" AR pistol that is just stupid fun to stand out at from 20 yards to 120 yards making steel ring. Its purpose in life is to entertain me between shooting sessions.

Will toss this grenade into the room and walk out as well. Wolf ammo is junk, point blank. Dirty, under powered, steel cased junk.

[Jeepster18_88]

Underpowered? That's pretty much a BS blanket statement. Some loads might be underpowered, but others are quite a bit hotter than the American equivalent, particularly the 7.62x39 loads which were as much as 200fps faster than Hornady and several others. 100 yard accuracy was just as tight out of both of my ARs also. There's 2 reasons that it sells so well, it's cheaper and it's reliable. If it allows more shooters to get into the sport, to be able to give them extra practice and knowledge on the use and workings of the gun, or make it affordable to give their kids a little range time, then it's a welcome addition to the shelves at the LGS IMO. Despite what ammo snobs say, I will never talk trash to the guy next to me at the range doing his best with what he can afford.

[Mesa1978]

Not to ARFCOM it up too much, but I have been very pleased with Colt 6960 uppers, thousands of rounds in classes without any failures and can hit steel at 600 yards with 75-77 purchased ammo pretty easily. so, I'm in favor of 5.56.

[centerfire]

Underpowered? That's pretty much a BS blanket statement.

No it isn't. 5.56 Wolf runs significantly slower than M193. This isn't the Twilight Zone, Wolf has been the bottom rung of the ammo world since forever.