Fixed AR15 A2 Butt stock vs 6 Position Butt Stock

[FANGGHOSTWOLF]

I would like the thoughts on the Fixed STOCK being used on the 6.5 Grendel 24" barreled upper vs the Adjustable butt stock pros and cons? I'VE got a Choate fixed butt stock that I can use. The LR is a fine butt stock with all its adjustment. Has the side anti rattle set on it. The LR plus the SPS adj plate with the Kick Easy recoil pad adds much weight to the gun. The adj cheek is still really to high on the lower position for me to get a comfortable cheek wield. Another issue I have found is the charging handle will catch on the front of the stock or depending on the position it will hit the cheek riser.
I have used the LR on other guns but none with the rear charging handle with good results.

THANKS

[A5BLASTER]

Personal preference really. I prefer fixed stocks on everything rifle length and carbine. Can't stand the feel, wobble or cheek weld of collapsible stocks.

[FANGGHOSTWOLF]

With this change comes the tube change also. Choate told me the fixed tube with the different buffer weight should not be a problem. I'm thinking the fixed A2 BUFFER is heavier and I know the spring is longer due to the length of the tube. Wonder if this will be another working out issue with weight? NON adj gas block for now.
But I agree on the wobble. But the LR will lock tight. But still a large butt stock. As this gun is set up it's going to be a bench type gun. Not a carry around in the woods. Lop sized up to the position I have the LR is about the same. Planning on using the SPA and kick easy butt pad? The pad that goes with this stock is the regular hard A2 pad. Not that really matters but I like the soft butt pad for shouldering and what ever recoil.
Thanks!

[Bigs28]

I have both but honestly i prefer my smoke composites fixed stock with buttpad. My adjustable stock always stays in the same position anyway so i never adjust it. The fixed stock also weighs allot less.

[snell]

I used an A2 stock for years when competing and became very comfortable with it. When I built my Grendel I went with the Luth Ar ( https://www.luth-ar.com/product/mba-1/ ) and never looked back. It is rock solid and much cheaper than a magpul.

[FANGGHOSTWOLF]

I have both but honestly i prefer my smoke composites fixed stock with buttpad. My adjustable stock always stays in the same position anyway so i never adjust it. The fixed stock also weighs allot less.

That's what Fred of CHOATE MACHINE told me. The son of Grath the founder of Choate Machine, an old time business that made the way to synthetic stocks and more. Fred is a big 3 gun shooter. Local business for me going back to 1972. I am lucky to have this friendship that has last over the years. I am secure with him and his gunsmith being local. After my move back I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO REACH OUT TO HIM ON OTHER GUNS.
I am relying on this forum TO HELP ME OUT.
I respect any input on this subject! Fred has shot and been around this caliber but is not really up to speed on it. He did have a demo 308 bolt gun in an AR platform that was interesting. He IS to test for whom ever the non disclosure maker. A break down gun. Removable by hand bull barrel? Indexed for replacement barrel calibers long and short. The grendel is one that could be installed. Sleek and light.
NOT that this matters to the forum but a good resource for me. Local gunsmith for me that I can trust. This mean much to me.

THANKS

https://www.rem870.com/2016/04/13/interview-with-fred-choate-from-choate-machine-tool/

[Wanderson]

I run an A2 stock on my 20” upper. A carbine buffer only goes up to 5oz but I’m running a 7 oz. rifle buffer. I like the heavier weight, balances better. Although this is mainly a bench shooter.
If I have to extend a carbine stock to the last or next to last position, I’d rather just run a rifle buffer tube. The only downside is no adjustability, so you have to hope your scope & mount will put your focal range where you need it. Usually only an issue with short scopes but a cantelever mount will give you more range.

[bj139]

If you are hunting in cold weather with a heavy coat the adjustable stock can be set shorter.

[Londerko]

[FANGGHOSTWOLF]

Buffer tube arrives today. Ill soon know how this works out. If not happy with the change it will go on the AR parts shelf. All good feed back and thanks all! Not going to be a hunting gun. I have looked at many nice fixed stocks offered. MagP has some nice ones plus other brands. Factory direct and local was hard to pass up on the price. Normally Choate has blems which you can not tell the cosmetic blem discounted low or in my case some times free. This butt stock was not a blem.
THANKS!

[FANGGHOSTWOLF]

I got time to install the fixed stock. The SPS adj butt took some slight repositioning of the attachment holes but worked out sweet.
Not had a change to do any shooting but the check weld and eye to scope seems correct. No charging handle issues. Lop is good. Shoulder's very good.

Heavy rain all day here. Plus I've got some shop work for others I've got to get out the door.

[98Z]

I run an A2 stock on my 20” upper. A carbine buffer only goes up to 5oz but I’m running a 7 oz. rifle buffer.

That's a custom rifle buffer, then, or modified buffer by someone, and two of the steel weights in it were replaced with tungsten weights... Each replacement of a tungsten weight over a steel weight adds 0.8oz to the overall buffer weight. Your 7.0oz weight over a standard AR15 rifle buffer weight of 5.2oz agrees with that math, almost. Something else is done to your buffer to get it to a full 7.0oz, if that's it's weight.

Carbine buffer weights are as follows (for 3.250" carbine buffers):

Standard Carbine: 3.0oz
H1: 3.8oz
H2: 4.6oz
H3: 5.4oz

AR15 Rifle buffer: 5.2oz

VLTOR A5 buffers are different, at 4.000" long, require the VLTOR receiver extension or an Armalite AR-10 Carbine receiver extension (7 5/8" internal depth), an AR15 rifle buffer spring. There are a few other verified receiver extensions that are exact on that internal-depth measurement - and it need to be exact, or you will have function problems. A5 buffers come in the following weights:

A5H0: 3.80oz
A5H1: 4.56oz
A5H2: 5.33oz
A5H3: 6.08oz
A5H4: 6.83oz

You can get a Slash Heavy Buffer for rifle in 11.0oz, and carbine (3.250") in 8.0oz.

There's alot more out there on buffers, and recoil systems, than most people realize. I've been dealing with screwed up recoil systems (and screwed up gas systems) on .308ARs for 10 years. I've got this stuff down to a science, now, for the .308s. All I run in the Grendels is collapsible stocks and the VLTOR A5 setup. I'm up to 5 Grendels now, with this setup. The only time I ever deviated from the Armalite AR-10 Carbine recoil system on a .308AR-based platform was the .260 Remington, (7.000" internal depth AR15 carbine receiver extension), Sprinco Orange Spring, and I built a custom heavy buffer for it, at 5.7oz (for a 2.500" buffer). My backup custom buffer for that is 5.15oz.

I've been dealing with bad recoil systems in the .308s for a long time. I got educated a long time ago, and this is the basis for the information that I started with, for standard, and Slash's Heavy Buffers - this table is gold for all info except the VLTOR H5 stuff:

http://heavybuffers.com/reference.html

I can talk recoil systems for years, and that's the heart of your rifle. USMC found that out a long time ago, when they tried to put standard collapsible stocks (and standard carbine recoil systems) on 20" rifle gas M16s. What eventually came of that - and made it work - was the VLTOR A5 system. That was the official USMC cure for it.

Colt got smart a long time ago on the M4A1, and realized it needed the H1 buffer to function in full-auto. One replacement weight made of tungsten. The 3.0oz standard carbine buffer wasn't cutting it, and they went to 3.8oz. They changed the recoil system, not the gas system, but added deeper feedramps to the barrel extension (over M16 feedramps). All the difference in the world. It works even better with the H2 buffer in it.

[OpFor1]

You know I had to look up half of what you said? LOL!
You sure can talk recoil systems for years! Excellent explanation and information!

[Wanderson]

Correct, I’ve upgraded all my carbine buffers to H2s and H3s and since I had spare steel and tungsten weights I bumped up the weight on one of my rifle buffers for a 7.62x39 16” carbine. Which my 20” 6.5 Grendel upper shares.

[FANGGHOSTWOLF]

To make this simple, the Rifle length fixed stock buffer? Will my rifle function correct with the 24" barrel. I'm yet to shoot it to after the install to know? This was an AR Stoner tube,SS Spring and buffer. No weight mentioned. 5.15 oz is what I am assuming is the weight. I'll have to weigh it I guess.
Am I correct that the A2 fixed stock tube being longer takes more weight on the buffer?