2.390" COAL Grendel & SPC Metal Magazines for the SIX8 and Other Compatible Receivers

[MDWS]

Here is a copy/paste from another forum. There is a lot of discussion over there already. Anyway, in case you missed it or don't go over there.

Hopefully it sparks discussion on how the project may help advance the 6.5G.




Let's just talk "hypothetically".

"Hypothetically", if:

A company has been working the past couple years developing a metal magazine for the LWRC SIX8 and other potential receiver sets to be made using said magazine.

Let's say they have the full support of LWRC, so that concern is out of the way.

Let's say they have finally successfully had said magazine designed by large magazine manufacturers.

Let's say they have CAD's for 10, 20 and 30 round capacities on hand.

Let's say they designed two versions - one for the 6.8SPC case body, and one for the 6.5 Grendel case body.

Let's say this company brought a functional 3D printed model of this magazine with them to the 2019 SHOT show, met with some very large Ammunition and Firearms manufacturers, showed it to them, and all were supportive.

Let's say they have production bids and schedules from a couple large, well known magazine manufacturers.

Let's say that there are additional compatible receiver set manufacturers lined up and ready to produce receiver sets that are compatible with the new metal magazine, as well as the original Magpul SIX8 Pmag.

Let's say that these additional receiver set manufacturers have sets priced at $350 or less.

Let's say one company already released their version of the compatible receiver sets and sold out in a couple weeks.

Let's say that the nominal Cartridge Overall Length capability of the magazines is 2.390", and that the published COAL will most likely be 2.380" to account for manufacture anomalies.

Let's say that said company has developed a new line of cartridges designed to take full advantage of the new COAL, and has dropped hints sporadically over time eluding to such.

Let's say that many other existing cartridges like the 6.8SPC, the 224 Valkyrie, 22 Nosler, and 6.5 Grendel will all be able to take advantage of the increased COAL in some capacity (Load Long), without having to "window" mags, providing full mag capacity at the long lengths.

Let's say that if one (the large ammunition companies and individuals) were so inclined, using the parameters these magazines would provide by design, that a cartridge with 40 grains H2O case capacity running at 55k PSI MAP would beat current 6.8SPCII and 6.5 Grendel numbers by ~200 fps could easily be designed.

Let's say said company owns the magazine designs, that they are patent pending, dozens of NDA's are in place and that production could start as soon as the tooling is paid for.

Let's say that we all understand what this new development is capable of turning into; how an entirely new family of cartridges would be developed to take advantage of it, and how it may have just a slight impact on the industry by providing rifles with the same weight, design, size, and ergonomics of an AR15 - using all AR15 compatible parts except the receiver set, the magazine and the mag catch, but with cartridges that none can compete with from a standard AR15.

Let's say that perhaps a company is considering designing an entirely new rifle platform around this metal magazine.

Let's say that these metal magazines will not cost much more than the currently available Magpul Pmags for the platform.

Let's say that said company is currently discussing with and seeking additional distributors and dealers to solidify the supply chain.

Let's say that once the tooling is funded, magazines would be "on shelves" about 6 months later.

Let's say the company is considering crowd-funding the tooling, and providing those that contributed magazines at a discount for their contribution to get the project off the ground.

Let's just say, hypothetically, that all of the above were accurate.

Would you give this a "Meh", or would you give this a "I'll take a few"?

Asking for a friend.



*SIX8 is a Trademark of LWRC

[rabiddawg]

Meh, I have no desire for a long Grendel. If I need more I’m going creedmore.

[A5BLASTER]

I would say let's see detailed pics and spec draw ups of said products. So to better discuss such products and add customer input too the products.

Me personal. Yes if such a mag was too come too market for the LWRC reciver set or (forget the name of company) the other reciver set that is a copy of lwrc's reciver set. Or if the CMMG 6.5 grendel reciver set could use or be milled out yo use said mag setup. I would phoney up the cash too have one.

I'm a gun nut and a severe 6.5mm/264 cal fan so anything chambered in 6.5 has my attention. And anything that can run 6.5 grendel is for sure worth my full attention.

[grayfox]

Mdws, answering for myself.
Interesting. Not really sure, but I'm interested enough to say if you need some people to field test, as independent shooters..... seeing it's a different receiver set and all, with mostly other std AR parts... well, I could be interested in being part of that test group.
I don't think I would totally buy one at this point, no offense, but 3 reasons:
1) it is mod 0, will tweaks be needed to get something right, doubtful it is 100% totally perfect out of the gate. the first few shooters will have to invest time, parts, and money and ammo etc as your test bed, over and above the receiver set and the mags.
2) granted a new intriguing design, but as many of us have seen, the proof of the barrel, the feeding, the receiver set performance, chambering and rejecting, indeed the rifle in total, is in the shooting...
3) does this mean a new brass/cartridge or do we use current 6.5 Grendel just load them a bit longer... unknown

What kind of crowd funding would this hypothetical mfr have in mind, I wonder?

[MDWS]

Thanks guys! I'll try to answer each one at a time.

rabbiddawg - no problem it isn't for everyone!

A5BLASTER - Two thigs, if you knew who we had making the mags you would be less skeptical, but since we can't say yet, I understand. FYI they 3D prited a model for me and it functioned in the rifle as expected. That's not saying much right now, but it was a working model.

grayfox - 1) mags will not leave the factory unless they are 100% functional. I understand your concern but we aren't working with amateurs in the industry on this one. There are already existing magazines (Pmags), so you can consider these metal versions of those… and they run flawlessly. 2) true, but... these aren't serious modifications to the platform. Again the receivers already exist, the Pmags already exist, the cartridges already exist... and this just enhances the 6.5 G's capability with some components. Not all bullets for the 6.5 G can be loaded long and benefit, that is true. 3) It's in the OP... It means both. New cartridges can be developed using the longer platform and, due to the width of the magwell true double-stack Grendel mags will be n the market that can load long as well.

It would be a standard crowdfund - you pre-order some mags at a discount for the wait, the money gets split - part to cover your purchase and part goes to the tooling costs. It would be through a crowdfund website, not through our store to make everyone more comfortable.

Thanks!

[A5BLASTER]

Thanks guys! I'll try to answer each one at a time.

rabbiddawg - no problem it isn't for everyone!

A5BLASTER - Two thigs, if you knew who we had making the mags you would be less skeptical, but since we can't say yet, I understand. FYI they 3D prited a model for me and it functioned in the rifle as expected. That's not saying much right now, but it was a working model.

grayfox - 1) mags will not leave the factory unless they are 100% functional. I understand your concern but we aren't working with amateurs in the industry on this one. There are already existing magazines (Pmags), so you can consider these metal versions of those… and they run flawlessly. 2) true, but... these aren't serious modifications to the platform. Again the receivers already exist, the Pmags already exist, the cartridges already exist... and this just enhances the 6.5 G's capability with some components. Not all bullets for the 6.5 G can be loaded long and benefit, that is true. 3) It's in the OP... It means both. New cartridges can be developed using the longer platform and, due to the width of the magwell true double-stack Grendel mags will be n the market that can load long as well.

It would be a standard crowdfund - you pre-order some mags at a discount for the wait, the money gets split - part to cover your purchase and part goes to the tooling costs. It would be through a crowdfund website, not through our store to make everyone more comfortable.

Thanks!

A few months back CPD told me they would build such a mag if someone or some company would bring them a contact too build a metal mag for those recivers.

Is that the mag company you are speaking of.

Not having ever laid my eyes and hands on one of those types of recovers but if some company had one with the larger barrel extension and bolt like the CMMG 6.5 grendel rifle uses and paired it with a 2.395 coal metal mag. It would be in for building up a 20 inch rifle setup.

Be cool too see what would shake out.

I have been keeping a eye on the 6.5 timberwolf for a lil while because I like the idea of it. But the above stated setup rocking long seated 6.5 grendel loads would rock in my book as well.

[MDWS]

I am sorry we can't say who it is yet as production bids are still out. The candidates we have chosen have stellar reputations for building the best 6.8SPC, 6.5 Grendel and 7.62x39 magazines between them.

Either direction we go will result in high quality magazines... it's just that their pricing models are different so they would require different approaches.

We are doing market research right now to see what would be best for us to do.

Thanks!

[A5BLASTER]

What kind of round count are we talking about with these mags? 10,15,20,25,30?

For my usage 10 rounders would cover target/load development/deer hunting, 20 rounders would cover hog hunting.

[MDWS]

Sorry, it is a long OP ha.

[bj139]

Meh, I have no desire for a long Grendel. If I need more I’m going creedmore.

Yes. If someone wants a longer Grendel, they should go Creedmoor or 260 Remington.
The Grendel is a sweet cartridge at the size it was designed to operate.
I don't understand the reluctance to go to a longer cartridge if that is what someone wants.

[MDWS]

No one needs to go to a longer cartridge of they dont want to. But, the option is there and the existing Grendel has plenty of opportunity to load long with a lot of bullets without changing the existing parent.

[MDWS]

I'm not always the best communicator so just to be clear, the SIX8 platform only offered 6.8SPC magazines... we did two versions, SPC and the Grendel version as we thought the Grendel community might enjoy the same opportunity. It is not our intent to "replace" either of them, just provide possibilities.

[A5BLASTER]

I'm not always the best communicator so just to be clear, the SIX8 platform only offered 6.8SPC magazines... we did two versions, SPC and the Grendel version as we thought the Grendel community might enjoy the same opportunity. It is not our intent to "replace" either of them, just provide possibilities.

Well I for one thank you for trying to bring something to market, that can benifet the grendel. I'm probably going too get a few mags and do up a 20 inch on the Sulzer firearms reciver set.

Looking back at my notes, I'm looking at 3 bullets I can't load as far out as I would like to test because I'm out of room in my magwell. So going off the specs your talking about for this new mag. I should beable too loaded them out closer too lands and do a better load work up for them and still feed from the mag.

[STXjake]

[bj139]

No one needs to go to a longer cartridge of they dont want to. But, the option is there and the existing Grendel has plenty of opportunity to load long with a lot of bullets without changing the existing parent.

Would you offer barrels with a longer throat or would these need to be custom throated?