Grendel in LRH online magazine

[Nick]

http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/6.5-grendel-1.php

[Klem]

Nice find, thanks Nick.

To my mind the Grendel calibre goes hand in glove with the AR15. The synergy of the calibre and platform is its 'raison d'etre'. Take away the AR15 and it loses a lot of justification; a poor cousin to all the other 6.5's with their larger case capacities. By the same token the .300 Blackout was purpose designed for the AR15 platform. Critically important is the Blackout's suppressed subsonic capability. Shoot it unsuppressed out of a bolt gun and you are left wondering what the fuss is all about. Without a suppressed AR shooters struggle to convince themselves its supersonic capability is anything more than average when compared to the .223. This is the impression I have of this Grendel article.

The author decides in the end that it passes the test for a medium range, small game calibre. unfortunately however has completely missed the the reason why it exists. It represents the pinnacle of current AR15 potential. It is an AR15 on steroids.

On the point of platform/calibre synergy I see bolt gun manufacturers are starting to get on board with the Grendel. Forum members are purchasing these and almost immediately loading it hot. From the outset expecting more from the cartridge because the receiver is no longer the limiting factor. As long as these guys accept that now the cartridge is the limiting factor then they will avoid a trip to the eye specialist. In an AR15 the Grendel is impressive, but outside the AR its a relatively slow velocity 6.5 with less justification. It is what it is and context is important.

[TOU]

Well written Klem, thank you.

To my mind the Grendel calibre goes hand in glove with the AR15. The synergy of the calibre and platform is its 'raison d'etre'.

Absolutely!

Take away the AR15 and it loses a lot of justification; a poor cousin to all the other 6.5's with their larger case capacities.

Well...yes & no.

It represents the pinnacle of current AR15 potential. It is an AR15 on steroids.

Again, 100% agreed. It has been the reason to finally get me in to the AR more seriously.

In an AR15 the Grendel is impressive, but outside the AR its a relatively slow velocity 6.5 with less justification. It is what it is and context is important.

I hear what your saying & agree on context.

On small caliber bolt actions like the mini Howa & even more so the miniature Mouser action of the awesome little CZ 527, you again maximize based on context. Small, light, reduced recoil with multiple applications otherwise not obtained on this platform...varmints to medium game legal in all 50 states. Additionally with long range capability & lethality. For all the reasons it is great in the AR platform are all the reasons it will be great in this awesome little bolt gun...and more...without hot rodding it excessively.

Cheers,

TOU

[Nick]

Thanks klem and I agree. The writer could have done a bit more to show the the benefits of it in the AR platform but did show is limitations to those interested in it for a bolt gun. The howa mini is a nice option and seems to have found its spot in the marketplace, but buyers should have realistic expectations about the rounds capabilities

[kmon]

I agree with Klem about the merits of the Grendel in an AR. A couple years ago I decided to put together a light weight boltaction rifle for hunting deer and hogs, I looked at a lot of cartridges and actions before choosing the Grendel for this build drawing on having killed deer and hogs with 35 different rounds including the Grendel for that decision. To me the Grendel cartridge is a lot like the story of Goldylocks and the three bears, where she kept choosing the one that fit her perfect. The Grendel is a fantastic balance of efficiency, accuracy, bullet availability, trajectory and being enough gun for anything I will ever hunt with it.

When discussing this build on another forum others tried to talk me out of it and go with the 6.5X47 or 6.5 Creedmoor stating I needed more velocity to which I responded if that is the case I will just drag the 6.5-284 or 264 Win Mag out of the safe and skip over their choices velocity wise. I can honestly say the little CZ 527 in 6.5 Grendel has become my favorite rifle and I do not see any change in that.

[TOU]

drawing on having killed deer and hogs with 35 different rounds including the Grendel for that decision.

I find that very interesting as well as telling.

To me the Grendel cartridge is a lot like the story of Goldylocks and the three bears, where she kept choosing the one that fit her perfect. The Grendel is a fantastic balance of efficiency, accuracy, bullet availability, trajectory and being enough gun for anything I will ever hunt with it.

Amen

When discussing this build on another forum others tried to talk me out of it and go with the 6.5X47 or 6.5 Creedmoor stating I needed more velocity to which I responded if that is the case I will just drag the 6.5-284 or 264 Win Mag out of the safe and skip over their choices velocity wise.

While I may add a 6.5 C someday, like you, I have several big boomers to choose from (I.E. 300 WM, 9.3mm, 7x64 etc.) as well as way too many small varmint calibers...mainly in bolts. I love small EFFICIENT calibers. I.E. 17M2, 17 H-Hornet, 19 Badger, .204R

I can honestly say the little CZ 527 in 6.5 Grendel has become my favorite rifle and I do not see any change in that.

Awesome! I too love CZ 527's in general & have them in every caliber available as well as a few Wildcats. Right now my favorite is in 17 H-Hornet...tough to beat the efficiency of 3650 ft/s & being able to load nearly 700 rnds with a # of powder.

I have on order one of the new 527's in 6.5G...hoping to see it before spring. Besides a 527-Carbine in 7.62 this will be my only one that is 50 state legal for deer...but in a much more efficient & capable caliber.

How long have you had yours? What barrel did you have put on? Length?

Thx,

TOU

[kmon]

How long have you had yours? What barrel did you have put on? Length?

Thx,

TOU

In May it will be 2 years with the CZ Grendel. 22 inch Obermeyer 1:8.4
On the 527 carbine the stock has the cutout for the rear sight. My smith opened the barrel channel in the stock to that width and appropriate depth to expand to match that and milled the barrel to fit with just being free floated in the stock and straight fluted the barrel. Balance on the rifle is fantastic and without a scope weighs in at just over 6lbs.

I have another 527 in 223 that was made for a short time, the Premier I think it was called with more hand fitting and finish from the factory and a deep rich blue finish more like you see on a Wetherby, that one is real nice gun.

[LRRPF52]

I would rather use a micro action Grendel bolt gun with the 129gr ABLR than a long-action 7mm Remington Magnum with some of the popular factory ammo, like the common 175gr Soft Point flat base with .426" BC (yuck). Even at 2860fps, you're wasting all that rifle weight, recoil, while suffering the distal placement of rifle mass away from you, making positional shooting more difficult.

I can also train with the Grendel all day long, affordably, to the extent of even firing hundreds of rounds.

Not gonna happen with a hunting weight belted magnum of any flavor, especially considering recoil and cost.

This is where I think the Grendel really has validity in a bolt gun. If it were chambered in another bore diameter like .30 cal, this wouldn't be true.

[Niles Coyote]

added my contribution to LRH

[Cornbread]

The guy is missing the point. The AR platform is what makes the Grendel relevant. Outside of that platform the case capacity limits it's performance. The niche is that you can get maximum effectiveness out of the AR without stepping up to the AR 10 and the increased weight of the bigger platform.

[Rickc]

The guy is missing the point. The AR platform is what makes the Grendel relevant. Outside of that platform the case capacity limits it's performance. The niche is that you can get maximum effectiveness out of the AR without stepping up to the AR 10 and the increased weight of the bigger platform.

I agree. All you can get out of a AR15. Wouldn't be my choice in a bolt gun.

[TOU]

The guy is missing the point. The AR platform is what makes the Grendel relevant. Outside of that platform the case capacity limits it's performance. The niche is that you can get maximum effectiveness out of the AR without stepping up to the AR 10 and the increased weight of the bigger platform.

Agreed on all points. This is also exactly the same line of thought & applies for the highly accurate, quality & reliable CZ 527's small light miniature Mauser actions.

As stated elsewhere...

The Grendel was specifically designed to get the absolute best ballistic performance
(downrange bullet weight, trajectory, accuracy) out of the standard AR receiver.
It does that absolutely superbly.

Once you release those bounds and say "...best in any rifle design at all," then you
are playing an entirely different game altogether.

Additionally...

It's not about the round but the rifle.

The idea of making a 6.5 on a CZ 527 is to come up with a super light low recoil deer rifle etc. (50 state legal) with a real Mauser bolt and extractor. SUPER reliable and strong and very accurate.

The ballistics of the 6.5 are never going to match the 260 R, 270 W, .308 W etc. We are not trying to get more power for this project.

The ballistics of the 6.5 Grendel are plenty good for deer hunting.
They work well with 18-20 inch barrels and they can be made REALLY slim and light. Near the weight of most 22s (6 lbs) and less recoil then the larger rounds.
This is a fun hobby. If it's not fun 99.5% of us would not have anything to talk about.

the whole reason to go with grendel is that it is the best general purpose cartridge available for micro actions...I.E. AR's & CZ 527's. It's really not making a fair comparison to compare a short action cartridge to an intermediate cartridge. The point of 6.5 grendel is it fits into an micro action...the others do not

There is always something bigger, faster & more powerful...but at what cost? Part of the appeal to me is the extreme high efficiency of this little round & doing more with less in a nice lightweight, low recoil package. (Same line of reasoning as my 17 H-Hornet)

Cheers,

TOU

[JASmith]

Whether in a bolt or AR, the Grendel offers a truly unique blend of qualities that can make it the "go to rifles" for all sizes ages and genders.

We get bullets that are effective to well past what most view as maximum range for ethical medium game hunting plus an outstanding accuracy potential for competitions inside 600 meters and plinking at all ranges. Combine this with modest recoil in light compact rifles and those of us who have shot a lot discover it fills the bill for almost all of our shooting.

Exceptions arise when game animal weight goes above about 880 lb (400 kg), or one wants to plink with 22 rimfire.

Beyond that, it becomes a difference akin to one's imagination and preconceptions. For example, why do some of us prefer blondes when others go ga-ga over dark hair and eyes? Both belong to excellent people and we rarely criticize those choices.