Newbie needs some pointers.

[Fishinglink]

Ok so I'm not new to firearms or AR's or new cartridges. Currently have a 18" .223, 10.5" .300 blk pistol and a .243 rem 770 beater. Have a virgin lower sitting in the safe and have been presented with an opportunity to go on an elk/mulie hunt in Colorado next year. From what I can tell a 16-20" light barrel is where to go for the 6.5 but is it the best round for the task? I am working within a budget of about $700. Already have a vortex 4-12 that I can put on it so that is not part of the budget. My home stomping ground is the lower peninsula of Michigan with shots of 300 or less. What are the realistic expectations of this caliber at altitudes of 6000 - 12000 ft?

[Fishinglink]

Forgot to mention that the radical firearms 20" is what I've been eye balling so far. $500 from joe bob.

[customcutter]

Can't help with your original question, I've never hunted elk or out west. The Grendel is capable, but it's all about bullet placement, and bullet construction. How confident are you in your abilities. Of the calibers you've listed I'd chose the Grendel. If I were going to spend my money, and had a chance at a trophy I would rather have my 7mmRemMag with some 175 gr pills I bought 15 years ago when I thought I was going to Idaho. I'd probably invest in some new projectiles on second thought.
BTW that upper has been on back order at Joe Bob's for several months now. Hopefully they will get some more in soon.

[LRRPF52]

People have been taking elk with the Grendel since Mark LaRue slayed a big bull at 407yds in Wyoming back in 2007.

He used a 120gr TSX. Lately, we've seen several people using the 123gr SST getting DRT results. Here's video of a close range elk getting DRT'd by a hunter using 6.5 Grendel.

[customcutter]

Yes, I know. I also know that in the real world, I get a little bit of buck fever. Some times don't get the perfect shot. I've also wanted to go on an elk hunt for the last 35 years. If I knew it was inside 100yds, the Grendel would get the vote. With my luck I'd take the Grendel and see the trophy of a life time at 450 yds. It's been 20 years since I've been able to shoot on a range at over 100 yds. That's why I'd take the extra power, just my .02. Nothing wrong with the Grendel in competent hands. I'm just willing to admit, I don't shoot slow moving bullets, or know yardages off hand that well.

[LRRPF52]

A misplaced shot with any caliber, to include .50 BMG, will not result in a clean kill. Charles Beckwith was shot with a Soviet 12.7mm machinegun in Vietnam, in the gut, and lived on to fulfill his military career.

Animals are a lot tougher than most humans, since they deal with the daily challenges of the wild.

The truth is that even bullet technology over 100yrs ago was more than adequate to not only take elk and moose, but all the African big game. WDM Bell killed 1100 elephants with:

6.5x54 Mannlicher
7x57 Mauser
.303 Enfield

He preferred the little 6.5x54 Mannlicher for killing giraffe, kudu, warthogs, and other medium and heavy game so he could trade with the local tribes in exchange for information on where the elephants were. 6.5x54 Mannlicher is about the ballistic equivalent of the 6.5 Grendel. If you look up the load data for them both, they are surprisingly similar, with all the loads I've seen within 50fps of each other for the same bullet weights and barrel lengths.

The other thing is that you simply can't practice with the 7mm Magnum like you can with the 6.5 Grendel. For every round of 7 Mag you fire, you will be able to fire at least 3-8 Grendel rounds, and not experience any recoil fatigue, while also being able to immediately see your hits. Ammo prices are also much more affordable.

The rifle you train with is the one that will give you the best results on target, knowing your capabilities and limitations. With modern premium bullets, your killing potential is even greater, as you will get excellent penetration with solids.

[customcutter]

The rifle you train with is the one that will give you the best results on target, knowing your capabilities and limitations. With modern premium bullets, your killing potential is even greater, as you will get excellent penetration with solids.

X2, If I knew I had a trip booked for next Oct, Nov, I'd have plenty of time to prepare. I'd have a range finder, I'd have plenty of range time on a range longer than 100yds, and the Grendel might get the nod. Knowing yardage and bullet drop, is probably my biggest difficulty now. 20 years ago I could shoot 3" groups with handloads in the 7mag at 300 yds. It took several trips to the range, and didn't happen the first time. To me MOA at 100 isn't the same as MOA at 300yds. I'd also have my fat butt off the couch and hopefully lose 20-30#'s.

[Fishinglink]

Well thanks for the insight. I am going to go the 6.5 route as long as my budget allows. The trip is next October so I have time and training to be done. I am fortunate enough to have family and friends with property where I can touch 4-500 yards. Going to invest in a range finder also. I do reload but am planning on 123 sst factory rounds if I can get good accuracy. I pity the woodchucks this summer. Would the 130-140 gr pills allow proper performance or is the velocity lacking? I have full expectations that shots could range from 10-500 yards from the groups last experience. Obviously barrel, bolt, and optic are important, any other areas I shouldn't skimp?

[LRRPF52]

Don't get me wrong, 7mm Mag is a great long range hunting cartridge, but you have to train with it at those distances, with skill, optics, and equipment that will support an ethical kill at distance.

With a muzzle brake, you can tame the 7mm Magnum, but you'll want ear pro on when you take the shot, which kinda puts the kibosh on hunting in most cases. People do it, but permanent hearing loss isn't worth it.

If you compare a Federal Premium Power Shok 175gr Soft Point in the 7mm Rem Mag, to a 6.5 Grendel with the same barrel length shooting premium ammo like the 129gr ABLR, at 300yds, they are .1 mils apart at 300yds for trajectory, and the Grendel has less wind drift. A lot of the factory 7mm Mag ammo is flat base, so all that speed is wasted on old school bullets with no boat tail, and therefore much lower BC's than you can get if you hand load the 7mm Mag.

Of course, loading for a belted magnum is not fun, and brass life suffers in many factory guns.

I actually expected the 7mm Mag to outperform the 6.5 Grendel easily with commonly available factory loads, but that Federal Premium is very underwhelming. A hand-loaded 129gr ABLR will actually pass it for speed at 550yds. The BC on that Federal Soft Point is only .429 listed, which is really terrible for a 7mm. There are a lot of 7mm pills in the mid .5 region easy. You get punched in the shoulder every time you shoot one too.

[din]

Forgot to mention that the radical firearms 20" is what I've been eye balling so far. $500 from joe bob.

Just buy one of Mark's BHW barrels from PF, or else have him use one to build you an upper. The difference in price wouldn't be all that much, realistically speaking, and Mark's attention to detail is incredible.

[am4966]

Or buy a barrel from black whole weaponry and you can get the other parts and have a sweet shooting Grendel! Where are you located in the lower Penn?

[Fishinglink]

Or buy a barrel from black whole weaponry and you can get the other parts and have a sweet shooting Grendel! Where are you located in the lower Penn?

Currently living in Grand Rapids but was born and raised in Kalamazoo. Heard rumors that black hole wasn't selling Grendel barrels anymore. Precision still has stock. Project is still in planning until Christmas roles round and I can get some more parts.

[CenTex]

I ordered from Joe Bobs over the Thanksgiving holiday and had my 20 in upper in less than a week. I absolutely love mine.