Accuracy Problems

[Michael]

[cory]

Have you tried adjusting your jump to lands?

[Michael]

No, not really. The AA loaded ammo gives me good results, so I am matching it as closely as I can.

[cory]

What is your jump to lands with the factory ammo?

The reason I ask this is because of a post by stokerj where he was talking about how he works up loads.

He had said once he finds the load that gives him the best results he starts adjusting the OAL for best results.

[mongoosesnipe]

concentrically should not be an issue be an issue as far as neck tension as long as your rounds are not getting pushed into the case during loading i think you should be fine there, AA and hornady both us a proprietary blended powder to get their velocity so you may be pushing your bullets a little too hard try knocking of a few tenths of a grain and see if that does anything for you

[GLShooter]

1) concentricity (I eyeball the rounds and they look OK to me) or 2) Neck tension. Not sure what to do about either issue as I thought I had good equipment.

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

You may well be having issues on those fronts. The fix is usually throwing $$'s at it. Dies that do everything concentrically are made by every make out there. Consistently I have found the Reddings to be the most reliable day in day out. The Redding seating set up seen to produce good run out numbers thanks in part to their bullet seater set ups in the Competition type that are spring loaded. in conjunction with their bushing dies. You aren't stretching the necks and getting uneven thickness with a bushing vs a regular expander ball set up.

Run out can be measured with several tools on the market. The new Hornady rig is nice but there are more accurate ones out there. Check Sinclair International for choices. I have the Hornady and a Sinclair rig that I use.

Neck tension with the bushings can be adjusted as you want since you size more or less as you pick different bushings. That gets you away from the standard one size fits all that may or may not work all the time. Brand to brand variation in neck thickness can be address with the bushings but cannot with a standard sizer. You can increase neck tension in your regular dies by turning the expander ball but that is a one way street.

Greg

[Michael]

Cory - About .015 jump for both rounds.

[LR1955]

All – I am having some issue with my reloads and would like some feedback from the experts in the Hoard with more experience than I. I have been reloading for about a year or so, and consider myself a novice. I reload to save money, and my intent is to at least match factory ammo.

My equipment is an older RCBS Rockchucker press, RCBS Chargemaster powder dispenser and scale, and Redding dies with micrometer bullet seater. My components are CCI#41 primers, Win 748, CFE 223, and Hornady and Lapua Brass (separated by brand).

I reload 120gr Barnes TSX and 123gr Lapua Scenar projectiles. With my reloads, I am getting very good velocity consistency (SD of 7-9, ES of less than 20, beating the AA factory ammo) and am within 10PFS of the AA Factory loads for both projectiles. All bullets are weighed (was one armed for several weeks, so I had time on my hands) and divided up in lots of .1gr variation.

My problem is accuracy. With the factory loaded ammo, I get about 1in groups with the Barnes, and about .75in groups with the Lapua at 100m. With my reloads, I am getting 1.5-2in groups with the Barnes, and about 1.25-1.5in with the Lapua.
I measure each loaded round at the o-give, and match the AA rounds with better consistency (AA +/- .002, mine +/-.001).

I am thinking it is one of two issues, 1) concentricity (I eyeball the rounds and they look OK to me) or 2) Neck tension. Not sure what to do about either issue as I thought I had good equipment.

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Mike:

Hate to tell you but you are going after the wrong things. You seem concerned about neck tension, ogive to lands, etc. They would not account for that much of a variance at 100 yards. Not from a gas gun and not from the majority of very good match rifles. Learned that one match when my bullets were a bit too long to magazine seat for 300 yards. We trimmed the tips off using leatherman tools until they could seat in the magazine and I didn't notice a thing with my groups and scores -- 96 or 97 % which was my average at that time. Needless to say, the bullets looked butchered and I imagine the run out was pretty horrible. A good lesson in how much a cartridge and bullet can be abused and still perform exceptionally well.

I would look at the CCI 41 primers first. I have used them on and off for years and they have never performed in any load for any cartridge. Next would be the 748 powder. We used to use it before better Grendel powders became available. I have never found 748 to be remarkable and unless I get a real good case fill and use a very hot primer, it never really performed with any consistency.

Find some CCI-450 primers and use some 2520, TAC, or 8208 XBR but keep the 8208 XBR loads under 28 1/2 grains.

Since the factory loads shot well, use their OAL length.

LR1955

[cory]

Cory - About .015 jump for both rounds.

I'd try a .1 and a .2 and see what results you get.

If that don't work I'd adjust your load. If you're not at max I'd move up, if you are I'd move it back down.

[Michael]

LR - additional questions in red

Mike:

Hate to tell you but you are going after the wrong things. You seem concerned about neck tension, ogive to lands, etc. They would not account for that much of a variance at 100 yards. Not from a gas gun and not from the majority of very good match rifles. Learned that one match when my bullets were a bit too long to magazine seat for 300 yards. We trimmed the tips off using leatherman tools until they could seat in the magazine and I didn't notice a thing with my groups and scores -- 96 or 97 % which was my average at that time. Needless to say, the bullets looked butchered and I imagine the run out was pretty horrible. A good lesson in how much a cartridge and bullet can be abused and still perform exceptionally well.

I would look at the CCI 41 primers first. I have used them on and off for years and they have never performed in any load for any cartridge. Next would be the 748 powder. We used to use it before better Grendel powders became available. I have never found 748 to be remarkable and unless I get a real good case fill and use a very hot primer, it never really performed with any consistency. Check, but I am getting good consistent velocities, isn't that a factor of the powder and primer?

Find some CCI-450 primers and use some 2520, TAC, or 8208 XBR but keep the 8208 XBR loads under 28 1/2 grains.Ok, will try different powder(if I can find it at a reasonable price) than 748, but having the same issues with CFE, and from others experience with it, they have had good results.

Since the factory loads shot well, use their OAL length. Check, that is what I am using for my loads, I just measured from the O-give vice the tip of the bullet. Isn't that a better way to measure? All rounds fit in magazines with no issues.

LR1955

As always, thanks to you and everyone else for comments.

[Michael]

I'd try a .1 and a .2 and see what results you get.

If that don't work I'd adjust your load. If you're not at max I'd move up, if you are I'd move it back down.

.1 or .2 jump? That seems like an awful big jump from the factory ammo...

[cory]

.1 or .2 jump? That seems like an awful big jump from the factory ammo...

HAHA My bad I meant .01 and .02

[CPT.CRAZY]

I would find some 8208xbr powder. I can't get CFE223 to work very well in my gun, but xbr seems to work in most.

[LR1955]

LR - additional questions in red As always, thanks to you and everyone else for comments.

Mike:

Another peculiar thing we have found is that consistent velocities don't always correlate with accuracy.

Your tests reveal that the factory loads shoot more consistently than your hand loads using the same bullet. So, it isn't the bullet and I doubt seriously the brass, either.

If it isn't the bullet or brass, it must have something to do with the primer, powder, or you. Probably all three but in order to reduce things, I would start with the CCI 41 primers. Only because I have never gotten consistent accuracy when using them in any cartridge.

100 yards is not a good distance to test loads. You really got to measure things very carefully and shoot a large number of rounds before you can honestly determine if one load is a better performer than another one. 200 yards is a much better distance and 300 is probably ideal.

You are a former Marine. Trust your calls. If your shots went to your calls, nothing is wrong with the loads. That is another problem at 100 yards as it is very difficult to call with precision at that short distance. Much easier at 200 or 300. However, you need to factor in your shot calls with a decision about how well a load shoots or you will be load testing for ever.

It is easy to get caught up in anal technicalities. Sure, you don't want a bullet seated into a neck crooked. However, think of the forces applied to the bullet and neck when that bullet is blasted off of the magazine, the bullet tip and ogive get rammed into a feed ramp, then slammed into a chamber. Not exactly like a bench rest shooter who loads each round individually into a bolt rifle.

So, change the components you believe are the culprits but include your shot calls and if you will shoot at 100 yards, shoot a number of five shot groups.

LR55

[Tedward]

I just went to the local gun show and got my Accurate 2520. $38 a lb, good price? He has more so wonder if I should get it while available.

I'll be starting to reload for my 24" barrel and 16". Do I need different powder for one or the other?

Will get the CCI450 primers tomorrow. $37 per 1,000. good price?? But 1,000 or stock up at $37 a box.

Need to get the stuff at the gun show because if you mail order, Hazmat fee of $27 puts me over the top.

Thanks for the input....