seeking reloading equipment advice

[Nukes]

[montana]

It depends on how much you plan to shoot. For precision shooting a single stage press should be more than enough. The other bells and whistles is kinda of an individuals choice. If you shoot multi- gun or practical shooting a progressive is the way to go. I'm lucky that I have two ammo manufacturers near by that give reloading component discounts to my club members when they are in stock. As far as ..25 moa reloading, that will depend on your rifle and trial and error when developing loads. When I find a good load I wait till I see the needed components are on sale and stock up. I have a friend who has all the bells and whistles when he reloads yet he still cant get the accuracy that I can obtain with a standard reloading equipment with one of my rifles. Reloading can be very enjoyable yet very frustrating when trying to find the magical load.

[ricsmall]

yep, it gets expensive! Im fortunate to have have been collecting equipment for some years now, although no matter what you have as a reloader, youre always looking to upgrade. its worth it though, so you may want to ease into it.

[bwaites]

In the 90's I calculated that spending 2 weeks of evenings doing case prep and reloading 5.56 NATO for 3-Gun competition saved me about $40-50 on 1,000-2,000 rds. I gave my Dillon press and all my reloading equipment to a friend. I figured my evenings were worth the trade off.

Now that I have become enamored of LR/XLR and now that the supply chain is unreliable, I have been giving some thought to returning to reloading, but this time with an eye to precision reloading (and recognizing that getting components is no longer a trivial problem). Part of what got me going on this is the .25-.33 moa accuracy that some "factory" ammo (each charge weighed) was obtaining.

Soooo, I started snooping around to see how much such a venture would cost. Yikes.

Forster Reloading Press
Redding or the new Forster sizer bushing dies
Redding Competition Micrometer bullet seater
John Whidden's bullet pointing system
RCBS Case Master Concentricity Gauging Tool
Lee Auto Prime
Flash hole trimmer
K&M BR Inside Flash-Hole Uniformer
Little Crow Gunworks “World’s Finest Trimmer"
VLD chamferer
Sartorius GD503 scale
Powder trickler

Then, of course there are the components. Ouch.

Is this what it takes to enter the world of .25 moa reloading?

Advice?

I have reloaded about 10,000 Grendel rounds on a Rockchucker, (and I still load my 7mm and Grendel long range rounds on it) and I have shot plenty of 100 yard .25 or better MOA groups. But...making a gas gun shoot those kind of groups is more about the barrel and the shooter than about the load.

I actually shot my first .25 groups using Lee dies.

If I were starting again, I would get the stuff in RED from your list, and see how I did, then add stuff as needed.

I would add:

RCBS 1010 scale or reliable digital scale of your choice. I actually use an RCBS Chargemaster, and I've had great success with it. Others like the RCBS 1010. $200 will get you a very capable digital or manual scale. I like the Chargemaster because it throws the load, and I can be seating a bullet while it does so. I typically set it up .1-.2 grains below the desired charge, then tap the feed spout to drop the last little bit in.

I've never trimmed any of my Lapua brass. It starts small, and hasn't ever gotten longer than spec before I use it up, typically between 15-25 reloads.

I don't point my bullets, even in 7mm WSM. I'm considering it, but I'm not sure its a variable that makes that big a difference at my level of shooting. With the Grendel, misreading the wind by 1-2 MPH will have a bigger effect than pointing bullets.

I have a concentricity tool, but I don't use it often, because the case is short, and I have very little runout issue. Once again, with the Grendel at distance, wind will have a bigger effect.

I use an RCBS hand primer, but have a Lee and a Hornady as well. 100% of my Grendel cases have been loaded using the RCBS.


Loaded as above. .2155 group, 5 shots, although it looks like 4. 107 Sierra over 28.5 of XBR 8208. These were the 16-20th rounds through the gun.

[Nukes]

It depends on how much you plan to shoot. For precision shooting a single stage press should be more than enough. The other bells and whistles is kinda of an individuals choice. If you shoot multi- gun or practical shooting a progressive is the way to go. I'm lucky that I have two ammo manufacturers near by that give reloading component discounts to my club members when they are in stock. As far as ..25 moa reloading, that will depend on your rifle and trial and error when developing loads. When I find a good load I wait till I see the needed components are on sale and stock up. I have a friend who has all the bells and whistles when he reloads yet he still cant get the accuracy that I can obtain with a standard reloading equipment with one of my rifles. Reloading can be very enjoyable yet very frustrating when trying to find the magical load.

yep, it gets expensive! Im fortunate to have have been collecting equipment for some years now, although no matter what you have as a reloader, youre always looking to upgrade. its worth it though, so you may want to ease into it.

Yes, I figured that my interest in precision LR/XLR would rule out another Dillon. That said, I do remember the convenience of having all the dies set, ready to go, just cranking out round after round. I can only imagine that I won't be at such production output using a one-stage press and micrometer dies.

When I was an active 3-Gun competitor I'd burn 1-2k rounds/month. Now I shoot less, but ALL my children love to shoot.

Ease into it—good advice. SPLASH!

I have reloaded about 10,000 Grendel rounds on a Rockchucker, (and I still load my 7mm and Grendel long range rounds on it) and I have shot plenty of 100 yard .25 or better MOA groups. But...making a gas gun shoot those kind of groups is more about the barrel and the shooter than about the load.

I actually shot my first .25 groups using Lee dies.

If I were starting again, I would get the stuff in RED from your list, and see how I did, then add stuff as needed.

I would add:

RCBS 1010 scale or reliable digital scale of your choice. I actually use an RCBS Chargemaster, and I've had great success with it. Others like the RCBS 1010. $200 will get you a very capable digital or manual scale. I like the Chargemaster because it throws the load, and I can be seating a bullet while it does so. I typically set it up .1-.2 grains below the desired charge, then tap the feed spout to drop the last little bit in.

I've never trimmed any of my Lapua brass. It starts small, and hasn't ever gotten longer than spec before I use it up, typically between 15-25 reloads.

I don't point my bullets, even in 7mm WSM. I'm considering it, but I'm not sure its a variable that makes that big a difference at my level of shooting. With the Grendel, misreading the wind by 1-2 MPH will have a bigger effect than pointing bullets.

I have a concentricity tool, but I don't use it often, because the case is short, and I have very little runout issue. Once again, with the Grendel at distance, wind will have a bigger effect.

I use an RCBS hand primer, but have a Lee and a Hornady as well. 100% of my Grendel cases have been loaded using the RCBS.


Loaded as above. .2155 group, 5 shots, although it looks like 4. 107 Sierra over 28.5 of XBR 8208. These were the 16-20th rounds through the gun.

Details are much appreciated, especially the red highlighted "get this first" advice. What I have discerned so far is that the Wolf 120gr MPT, at 2 moa, will be relegated to run 'n gun. The 130gr Swift Scirocco looks very promising, mostly .25-.33 moa with my flyers (or wind) ruining the groups' horiz dispersion to .75 moa. 123gr A-MAX and Scenars are a close second and third. Not impressed with the lighter Bergers and Scenars out of my 20" 1-8.5 barrel.

One of the reasons I put the Sartorius scale on the preliminary list was the rave reviews of it by many precision shooters. It seems that some completely bypass segregating cases by weight and bypass all the meticulous/laborious concentricity/neck turning case prep and instead just buy quality Lapua brass and weigh each charge to 0.005 grams with excellent results.

Ultra-glad to hear that the case trimming is not an issue with Lapua brass; for me that was the most tedious and only unenjoyable part of reloading 5.56 NATO.

[bwaites]

Yes, I figured that my interest in precision LR/XLR would rule out another Dillon. That said, I do remember the convenience of having all the dies set, ready to go, just cranking out round after round. I can only imagine that I won't be at such production output using a one-stage press and micrometer dies.

When I was an active 3-Gun competitor I'd burn 1-2k rounds/month. Now I shoot less, but ALL my children love to shoot.

Ease into it—good advice. SPLASH!

I understand that David Tubb loads his ammo on Dillons, and I've heard that Carl Bernosky does as well. Its about consistency, and you can make them consistent.

[Nukes]

I don't shoot as well as those gents. I'm hoping the Forster will give me an edge. :-)

Reading Litz's books, it is clear that wind calls trump much of our other concerns (and ooo whee we do have swirling winds), but I would like not to pile on unnecessary imprecision.

This might be a good time to give credit to his AB Munitions ammo. It is superb.

[bwaites]

I like the Forster a lot, and doing it again I'd probably go that route, but it has weaknesses as well. I've heard horror stories about looking for the springs that control the shell holders after reversing the jaws.

[Nukes]

Memo to self: "NO reversing the jaws on the Forster."

Check!

[bwaites]

Memo to self: "NO reversing the jaws on the Forster."

Check!

They reverse for different sizes of shell bases, so you have to do it if you reload more than one basic size. Just be careful! Or order extra springs!

[Nukes]

Memo to self: "Buy extra springs."

:-)

[LR1955]

I understand that David Tubb loads his ammo on Dillons, and I've heard that Carl Bernosky does as well. Its about consistency, and you can make them consistent.

Bill:

Yes, they do. But it isn't an 'out of the box' Dillon. They alter a bunch of things before using them.

LR1955

[Nukes]

Bill:

Yes, they do. But it isn't an 'out of the box' Dillon. They alter a bunch of things before using them.

LR1955

Adding what sort of items? At what approximate cost?

[bwaites]

Bill:

Yes, they do. But it isn't an 'out of the box' Dillon. They alter a bunch of things before using them.

LR1955

Understood, my point was that you can make progressives consistent. After setting up a Hornady LNL progressive just last night, I'm impressed with how well they really can be set up. I had consistent powder drops within +/- .1 grain. That was just a trial run, using all stock components. I suspect I'll actually be able to fine tune it a bit.

[neenjuh]

Out of curiosity, you all referring to the 650/1050 only or the 550 as well? I'm fixing to order a press and was leaning heavily to the 550; but if there is issues with consistency perhaps I should look into another press.