Looking for Load Data with h4895

[tonedaddy]

Just picked up a Nesika Pistol in 6.5 Grendel. It has an 1 in 8 twist. I plan on useing 140 grain bullets. Can someone please give me a starting point to go from here?
Thanks in advance for your help!

[richie301]

You don't say what components you plan to load with. That said, H4895 has density and burn rates similar to Imr-8208 or Ar-comp. With 140 gr bullets you need to start around 24.0 grains with lapua brass
I have a 1-8 rifle and never could get H4895 to shoot very well. Where as 8208 and Ar-comp do much better. Here is a link to reloaders nest for the 6.5 grendel. Go easy

http://www.reloadersnest.com/frontpage.asp?CaliberID=365

[Bwild97]

H4895 is probably a little too fast for a projectile that heavy. I Don't have any load data for 140g Pills W/CFE223 yet, but my first step will be 26g and a CCi 450 primer, and work up from there.

How long is the barrel? maybe post a pic or two?

[tonedaddy]

Barrel is 15". Seems like the way to go here is with ball powder, I have a bunch of H335. Your thoughts?

[richie301]

H335 is slightly faster than single base imr8208, but similar in density so load start data is approximately the same. The temperatures are supposed to be in the mid 90's this week and double base ball powders will pressure spike very quickly with excessive heat. Your 15" barrel should be very close to 16" rifle data. Move up very slowly with ball powder (.2 of a grain)

[tonedaddy]

On second thought, I don't like to use ball powder anyway, the gun is throated for 142 SMK's so will probably try Reloader 15, H4895 or Varget. I do NOT want to have to shoot a hot load as this gun will be used for metal silhouette and I would like the barrel to last a few thousand rounds

[ChellieWiles]

8208 xbr will probably be your best bet during summer. It's an extruded powder that doesn't have any real change in velocity from summer to winter. I use h322 during the winter and it's an extruded powder also, just a bit quicker than 8208. There is about a 500-1000k difference in pressure during the winter to summer with both of these powders from what I have observed, but it only means about a 20fps change from the variance in temp which isn't really anything to get excited about. A lot of reloaders here have that difference on average without factoring in such a small pressure change.
With a shorter barrel, 14-16", you will want to use the faster powders since you're going to want all that powder to be consumed by the time the bullet passes the gas port or you'll end up with a dirtier bolt carrier and gas tube because the powder is actually entering and burning inside of the gas system causing parts to wear out faster. With carbine length rifles, you'll truly get better results with the 85-108gr projectiles all the way to 800 yards as opposed to the 120's and up. You will sacrifice holdover if you do want to use the heavier bullets but I haven't noticed too much of a gap in drop rate out to around 300 between the 108 scenars and the 123 amax's. Past 300, the gap opens up significantly.

[tonedaddy]

Thanks but as I said, this is for a single shot pistol, not an AR

8208 xbr will probably be your best bet during summer. It's an extruded powder that doesn't have any real change in velocity from summer to winter. I use h322 during the winter and it's an extruded powder also, just a bit quicker than 8208. There is about a 500-1000k difference in pressure during the winter to summer with both of these powders from what I have observed, but it only means about a 20fps change from the variance in temp which isn't really anything to get excited about. A lot of reloaders here have that difference on average without factoring in such a small pressure change.
With a shorter barrel, 14-16", you will want to use the faster powders since you're going to want all that powder to be consumed by the time the bullet passes the gas port or you'll end up with a dirtier bolt carrier and gas tube because the powder is actually entering and burning inside of the gas system causing parts to wear out faster. With carbine length rifles, you'll truly get better results with the 85-108gr projectiles all the way to 800 yards as opposed to the 120's and up. You will sacrifice holdover if you do want to use the heavier bullets but I haven't noticed too much of a gap in drop rate out to around 300 between the 108 scenars and the 123 amax's. Past 300, the gap opens up significantly.

[JASmith]

On second thought, I don't like to use ball powder anyway, the gun is throated for 142 SMK's so will probably try Reloader 15, H4895 or Varget. I do NOT want to have to shoot a hot load as this gun will be used for metal silhouette and I would like the barrel to last a few thousand rounds

What pressures do you want to run at? What pressure level do you consider "HOT"?

If I understand correctly, the Nesika is a bolt action. This means that you can run PPC pressures if you desire.

You indicated that the barrel is throated for the the 142 gr Match King. What is the maximum COAL you can get with this bullet?

[tonedaddy]

I would prefer to run in the neighborhood of 45-48k. This will be used for metal silhouettes. Would like to push the 142 around 2100fps. A match is 40 targets over the period of about 35 minutes so the barrel may get pretty hot. The base of the bullet will be at the the base of the neck no deeper.

[JASmith]

Those pressures will indeed assure good barrel life with normal powders.

I ran QuickLoad with the 142 gr Matchking at a COAL of 2.45" in a 15" barrel and a maximum pressure of 48,000 psi. The COAL gives a shank seating depth of a tad over .26" which places the base of the bullet in the shoulder region. A longer COAL will result in less than one-caliber of support by the neck.

QuickLoad should do OK with the bullet base being above the body-shoulder intersection. There are reports of divergence from reality when the base is seated deep into the cartridge but your specification keeps us away from that potential challenge.

Here are some examples of powders that will get a tad over 2100 ft/sec with that combination of constraints. The powder weights are rounded to the nearest whole grain:

30 grains --

• VV N550
• H414

29 grains --

• Ramshot Big Game
• Reloader 17

• 28 gr -- Bl-C(2)
• 27 gr -- IMR 4895
• 25 gr -- IMR 3031

Knock about .5 grain off to get down to the region of 45,000 psi with velocities below but within 25 ft/sec of your nominal 2100 ft/sec.

Am looking forward to seeing what your chronograph tells us!

PM me for more details

[Bwild97]

8208 XBR is still too fast for a projectile that heavy.

If you dead set against using a ball powder, look at developing some loads with IMR 4064, Varget, IMR 4320, IMR 4007 SSC, IMR 4350, and RL 17. These powders are all in the appropriate burn rates for a 140g projectile (fastest to slowest)

I am also considering these powders for my next round of load development with 140g projectiles if CFE223 does not pan-out as hoped.

[Bwild97]

I did find a load for a 142g SMK and Varget


Load 6779 in caliber 6.5 Grendel


LoadID 6779
Bullet Sierra Match King
Bullet Weight 142 grs
Powder Varget
Powder Weight 27.5 grs
Primer Federal 205M
Brass Make Alexander Arms
Barrel Length 24 (inches)
C.O.L 2.375 (inches)
Velocity 1828 fps
Group 100 yds 2" @ (400 yds) (inches)
Submitted By P.Burr
Gun Info Custom built AR based on Les Baer 24" .264 LBC using a Nightforce Benchrest scope
Comment This is the first load I have tried in this weight class. It might have better potential once fully developed. 139 gr Scenars might be more realistic out of this barrel to try for 800-1000 yds. Velocity is a 5 shot average. Overall length sits to the LANS of my barrel after trimming .005" off the Meplat for uniformity. Brass was virgin and pockets were also uniformed and deburred.

[tonedaddy]

PM sent

Those pressures will indeed assure good barrel life with normal powders.

I ran QuickLoad with the 142 gr Matchking at a COAL of 2.45" in a 15" barrel and a maximum pressure of 48,000 psi. The COAL gives a shank seating depth of a tad over .26" which places the base of the bullet in the shoulder region. A longer COAL will result in less than one-caliber of support by the neck.

QuickLoad should do OK with the bullet base being above the body-shoulder intersection. There are reports of divergence from reality when the base is seated deep into the cartridge but your specification keeps us away from that potential challenge.

Here are some examples of powders that will get a tad over 2100 ft/sec with that combination of constraints. The powder weights are rounded to the nearest whole grain:

30 grains --

• VV N550
• H414

29 grains --

• Ramshot Big Game
• Reloader 17

• 28 gr -- Bl-C(2)
• 27 gr -- IMR 4895
• 25 gr -- IMR 3031

Knock about .5 grain off to get down to the region of 45,000 psi with velocities below but within 25 ft/sec of your nominal 2100 ft/sec.

Am looking forward to seeing what your chronograph tells us!

PM me for more details

[rasp65]

On second thought, I don't like to use ball powder anyway, the gun is throated for 142 SMK's so will probably try Reloader 15, H4895 or Varget. I do NOT want to have to shoot a hot load as this gun will be used for metal silhouette and I would like the barrel to last a few thousand rounds

TD The Grendel does not have enough case volume to be a barrel burner. Check this out you will see that the Grendel is near the top of the list(a good thing): http://www.accurateshooter.com/techn...ed-by-formula/ So I would't worry about ball powders burning out your barrel. You might try LVR or H-380 with the 140's.