Reloading Setup Question

[Oso Polaris]

There are 2 camps on this. The most important part is being consistent with the sequence of activities to ensure consistent neck tension from one group of reloads to the next. Also, I'm annealing after each firing, which makes the work hardening less of a concern as compared to some shooter's practice of annealing after every 3rd firing.

For me it just depends on the cartridge and rifle.
1. Range Brass - gets annealed before any other activity because I have no idea on the round count
2. Bulk Brass (ammo, such as 223, that will be shared between several different firearms) - I treat similar to Range Brass in that the chambers may vary significantly so I anneal first.
3. Precision Brass / Dedicated Rifle brass - I anneal after FL Resizing, but before I neck expand.

Fun Fact: It doesn't matter whether you anneal when case is dirty or after its clean. I shoot a lot of suppressed so I prefer to anneal the cases after they have been wet tumbled. I like being able to also visually confirm the heat temp line progression.
For precision cases I polish the neck (inside & outside) to remove the metal oxidation that results from annealing... I don't want to damage my premium dies. With the bulk ammo, I don't worry as much (cheaper dies) and I let the steel pins do some of the work.

---Pick Your Poison---
The benefit of annealing at the beginning is that eliminates any case hardening from multiple shot brass or cases with excessively-oversized chamber and added convenience of not having to deal with removing case lube before annealing.
The benefit of annealing after resizing is eliminates all case hardening and don't run risk of scratching the walls of FL Sizing Die with any metal oxide on outside of freshly annealed case.

[myrifle]

There are 2 camps on this. The most important part is being consistent with the sequence of activities to ensure consistent neck tension from one group of reloads to the next. Also, I'm annealing after each firing, which makes the work hardening less of a concern as compared to some shooter's practice of annealing after every 3rd firing.

For me it just depends on the cartridge and rifle.
1. Range Brass - gets annealed before any other activity because I have no idea on the round count
2. Bulk Brass (ammo, such as 223, that will be shared between several different firearms) - I treat similar to Range Brass in that the chambers may vary significantly so I anneal first.
3. Precision Brass / Dedicated Rifle brass - I anneal after FL Resizing, but before I neck expand.

Fun Fact: It doesn't matter whether you anneal when case is dirty or after its clean. I shoot a lot of suppressed so I prefer to anneal the cases after they have been wet tumbled. I like being able to also visually confirm the heat temp line progression.
For precision cases I polish the neck (inside & outside) to remove the metal oxidation that results from annealing... I don't want to damage my premium dies. With the bulk ammo, I don't worry as much (cheaper dies) and I let the steel pins do some of the work.

---Pick Your Poison---
The benefit of annealing at the beginning is that eliminates any case hardening from multiple shot brass or cases with excessively-oversized chamber and added convenience of not having to deal with removing case lube before annealing.
The benefit of annealing after resizing is eliminates all case hardening and don't run risk of scratching the walls of FL Sizing Die with any metal oxide on outside of freshly annealed case.

Correct.

I have done it both ways and after sizing does better for me.

[Klem]

I as well question annealing after sizing. You would loose some of the neck tension needed that sizing imparts.

This is an interesting question.

I anneal after every firing and without evidence that one is better than the other assume that it doesn't matter when annealing happens.

I figure there are three times the case gets worked in the shooting cycle. First, when the case neck is squeezed by the sizing die. Second, when it is forced open to seat a bullet. Third, when it is forced open even more against the walls of the chamber by firing. The cycle then repeats. Obviously you have to do it when the case is empty.

I notice you have to work the press harder if annealing is done before sizing. So, assuming it doesn't matter when it occurs and purely to save effort I anneal after sizing.

First time I've heard about the oxide coating needing to be removed to spare the dies. I have heard some ammo manufacturers polish the anneal mark off but they do that for cosmetic reasons.

[Oso Polaris]

KLEM - Just one more PITA step/recommendation for precision brass.... advocated by Benchrest/F-class competitors. I have switched to annealing in past couple of years... so no expert and not running a AMP.

There are 3 topics that seem to intersect and have a lot of cross-talk.
1) Carbon in Neck - leave it or clean it. Argument that it acts as lubricant for seating and shooting.
2) Annealing - When during case prep process? / How often to anneal (courtesy of AMP tests the consensus is after each firing as opposed to old guideline of after every 3rd firing).
3) Polishing the Case Necks (inside & Outside) after annealing.

https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/how-thoroughly-do-you-brush-your-necks-when-loading.4044991/

I really wish someone would write the definitive procedure for precision brass prep.... every step and possibility. When reloading you simply select which steps fit your needs/equipment, and ignore the others. I shoot a lot of suppressed so I use steel pin to clean my cases... leaving carbon in the neck isn't a concern/option. If I think it will help then I am using Imperial dry neck lube (graphite).

The "oxidation" that occurs as biproduct of annealing is something that gets discussed a bit by the Competitive shooters. Honestly, I am lazy with my bulk/plinking ammo and I don't bother with polishing the necks of these cases... I throw them into the steel pins to remove the case lube and assume this will also be good enough for nocking down any oxidation along the case neck. Also, I am using New Dimension dies for my 223 so not worried about the dies . They are inexpensive so if there ever is a problem then I will replace with another $35/set. I treat my precision rifles differently....I polish the necks, which can be done with 3M pad (grey or maroon) on the outside and a bore brush wrapped in 0000 steel wool for inside the neck.

There is a member, Harvey McCraw (this is his screen name as well), on Accurate Shooters Forum that makes a very nice neck polishing collet tool ($75) that you attach to a cordless drill. Note: I have an additional hex drive adapter attached to bottom portion of the tool's shaft.
Case Neck Polishing Tool 1.JPG
Case Neck Polishing Tool 2.JPG

PMA Tools makes an power tool adapter that allows you to screw your bore brush into it and then attach it to a cordless drill. I use this for cleaning the inside of the necks.

https://www.pmatool.com/case-neck-brush-power-adapter/

[BVickery1974]

21st Century Neck Expander Die & Mandrel (don't use the factory expander ball that comes with the FL Sizing Die)

So would I use this with the mandrel to just resize the neck or is it a fl resizing?

[Oso Polaris]

You need to use both FL Sizing DIe and Neck Expander Die/Mandrel.

First, you run your cases through the Full Length Sizing Die, but with the expander ball removed. The FL Sizing Die does several different things at same time - it brings the case dimensions back to SAAMI specifications, it bumps/pushes the shoulder back, and it reduces/shrinks the outside diameter of the case. If the Decapping Rod & Expander ball are installed in the FL Sizing Die then it also removes the fired/spent primer from bottom of case and as you raise the press' arm the expander ball gets pulled back up through the case neck and opens it up for the bullet. This is how the standard FL Sizing Die works.

*The only setup concern for the FL Sizing Die is to set the proper amount of shoulder bump for your rifle's chamber, which is where the Hornady Shoulder Bump/Headspace Gage comes into play.
** Most FL Sizing Die tend to excessively shrink the case neck, relying on the expander ball to open them back up in order to fit the bullet. The end result is still too much neck tension. This is where/why FL Sizing Dies with Bushing or Custom Dies come into play in order to better control the amount of neck reduction/shrinkage, and also to improve concentricity.
*** Expander Balls do not come in custom sizes to allow you to achieve a desired neck tension. The only way to adjust this is try different brands to find a better fitting size or in case of it being too large then grinding/polishing to reduce the diameter... PITA

I prefer to deprime the cases while they are dirty before tumbling/cleaning them. I use a Universal Depriming Die, which is basically just a decapping rod (no expander ball) set inside a hollow die body that doesn't make any contact with the dirty cases. Yes, this is an extra step but not a big deal and I like having a cleaner case. After the brass is clean (& dry), I lube the cases and run them through the FL Sizing Die (with the guts removed - no decapping rod or expander ball). I anneal my precision brass and polish the necks. Now I run the cases through the Neck Expander Die to set proper internal diameter of the case neck (i.e. neck tension). Using a Neck Expander Mandrel as a separate step has the added benefit of improving concentricity. Last step is to chamfer the necks and then load the cases.

The typical case neck has irregularities, such as variations in wall thickness from case to case &/or inconsistent surfaces (high points & low points). For most hunting rifles this doesn't make a huge difference, but for an accurate rifles with precision cut chambers it can make a big difference. Neck turning eliminates or at least minimizes the effect by reducing the irregularities and improving the consistency, case to case. Without neck turning, these irregularities in the case neck get "relocated" during the case prep process. The FL Sizing Die pushes these irregularities to the inside of the case neck, which creates inconsistent neck tension. The Neck Expander Die creates a smooth consistent ID in the case neck and pushes any irregularities to the outside of the case neck, which creates more uniform neck tension.