Oddball 6.5G combo for a "custom" bolt action: 147gr ELD-M help, please.

[hcb]

Hello. I posted something similar on Accurate Shooter but, after no immediate responses, I thought I should ask here.

I built a custom Savage bolt action (model 12-FV barrel swap and bolt head) in 6.5 BPC (Grendel with tweaked chamber specs). I bought the blank and chambered it just to see if I could do the job. Shoots well. Yea for me. Whatever. Anyway, I then throated it so I can seat 147 ELD-M bullets so the bearing surface is above the neck shoulder junction (they're long and the finished cartridges are 2.553" overall). This gives me full case volume for powder.

Now I need to work up loads to push that bullet but there's no starting point to my eye; the heaviest loads I've found published are for the 130gr bullets. I normally only load "book" loads (Hornady, Nosler, Hodgdon, etc) so I've got no experience with "guessing" loads. The furthest "off the reservation" I've gone is loading some Leverevolution behind some 100gr ELD-M for the AR-15 in 6.5 Grendel. I did shoot a few loads with that powder behind the 147gr bullets but my only real "over pressure" sign is reading primers. I've got as many as 8 powders that may work with this cartridge/bullet combo and the idea of trying them all blindly and looking for primer damage (or rifle/finger/face parts) isn't what I want to do.

Anybody else done anything like this (or single fed an AR-15) with bullets this heavy? Anybody have Quickload who can work up some loads to start with? I've looked at QL but, since I normally use only "book" loads, I've not needed it. And looking at it, and reading about it, for quite some time (maybe 2 years), I see there's a learning curve with it. For one cartridge/bullet combination I hate to go through the process and the booboos that will occur.

Thanks for your time.

--HC

[A5BLASTER]

Buy a chrongraph. Your health depends on it.

[Lemonaid]

Speer has load data for 140 grain bullets.

https://www.speer-ammo.com/reloading/rifle/recipe/?setId=d1d06fc2-aa1e-4906-8184-381e35c591e5

I've got pretty good accuracy with 27.0 to 27.5 grains of Win 748.
Barnes has some data for their 140 match burner.

https://www.barnesbullets.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/6.5GrendelForWeb.pdf

Their upper two powders velocity wise were H335 and Tac

[hcb]

Yes, I have a chronograph. But it would help to know where to start with which powder. 27.0 grains of Titewad would probably negate the value of the chronograph.

--HC

[hcb]

Thanks for the Speer and Barnes data. I'll look at it tomorrow but 140 should be close enough to use the listed powders and drop down to start load development. Like Academy Sports...I know of the companies but never think of them (Speer and Barnes).

I have H335 and TAC which is convenient, too.

Thanks again.

--HC

[FW Conch]

hbc, inquiring minds would like to know the answer to the question, why? The 147ELD M is a target bullet. It is heavy for a 260Rem. Are You going to use it for target? Hunting? Either would have to be short range. I understand "I want to do it because I can", but a little more information would help us understand Your end desire.

Thanks

[A5BLASTER]

Yes, I have a chronograph. But it would help to know where to start with which powder. 27.0 grains of Titewad would probably negate the value of the chronograph.

--HC

Well no one on this board can really give you a accurate start level because you have a wildcat. 27 grains might be a good spot to start are your seating length might let you start at 30 grains.

I'm inclined to think for just about any powder 28 grains is going to be a ok starting point for you.

But since your shooting a wildcat I would urge you not to work up a single shot unless it's over the chronagrah.

[grayfox]

My thoughts.
You're way off the reservation, you would be better to stick with (if you want heavy) 140 gr, flat-base bullets.
But then again with the elongated throat and non-Saami chamber, you've introduced yet 2 other unknowns so who knows what that barrel will do.
If you're shooting the 147's because you happened to get a bunch of them for a good price, then use a Creedmoor or a 260.
Plus, it's your money of course but it would be more advisable to focus on getting "bargains" only for calibers you can really use them in.

[LRRPF52]

147gr ELD-M in a bolt gun Grendel is fine with the chamber you cut and those COLs.

We have 140gr Lapua Naturalis, 144gr Lapua FMJ, and 156gr Lapua Mega load data in the 6.5 Grendel Handbooks for the AR15.

Powders include:

Powder/Start load (work up in .3gr increments since this is 1% of usable case volume)
H4895 26.0
Varget 27.0
N140 21.9 (I wouldn't use this, Vihtavuori just lists all the powders they tested)
N530 21.8
AA2520 26.0
N540 24.5


You can also use CFE223 and LeveRevolution starting with 27.0gr.



I was able to load the 140gr A-MAX to about those COLs in my Howa 6.5 Grendel bolt gun, with increased case capacity using the same type of bearing surface engagement with the shoulder-neck junction.

The fun thing with 140-147gr class bullets is that they hit the steel with a noticeable whack compared to 123gr, even though they have a lot of drop. Wind drift is good with the high BC 140gr class as well, even with lower MV.

[hcb]

FW Conch: It started with a quest for a 6mm variant in the AR-15 platform which led me to consider a 24 Nosler which led me to a forum post from someone looking for info on the 24 Nosler. Being as that I had a lathe and had watched a gunsmith chuck up a barrel once, I decided to chamber a barrel in 24 Nosler to get data for the forum post. It was "easy", much easier than I thought it would be (truing the first barrel in the lathe took 1:45...I didn't mind it a bit, I'm good with inane details). Now truing barrels in the lathe takes me about 25 minutes, but I digress. Having great luck with the 6.5 Grendel for hunting (Hogs, Coyotes, and Bobcats, coincidentally my initials, too), I thought it would be fun to build a bolt action rifle in that cartridge, so I did. The first and only shooting competition I've done, and I want to go do it again, is only 200 yards. I sight my rifles at 200 yards and check loads at that distance, it's not a big deal. I did pretty well my first outing but I was shooting 69gr SMK's from a 223R Savage 12-FV. The slight breezes that came up through the morning played hell with my bullets. So...I wanted the 6.5 Grendel cartridge because I have had great results from the two I've shot, paper is at a known distance so bullet drop isn't an issue, and heavier bullets drift less...so, I looked for the heaviest bullet I could find in 6.5mm/0.264". I found the 147 ELD-M. Normally, it's not cool to hunt with "match" bullets but the 100 and 123gr in 6.5 have been devastating on critters so I've shot a bunch of the ELD-M's. Heavy and a pedigree I'm familiar with...sold!

And that's how to build a watch. Oh, the time is.... My first wife said that if someone asked me what time it was I would tell them how to build a watch.

--HC

[hcb]

A5Blaster: Quickload software can give some guidelines from which starting points can be determined. On the other forum post (some other site) I have received some load data based on a QuickLoad simulation. I tested those loads today, over the chrono. The chrono, however, is just to satisfy my curiosity and to see where there were diminishing returns (more powder, not so much more speed). I use the chronograph with book loads to act as a second source of confirmation that the load is performing properly, to see if it's matching the published, anticipated velocity. With this combination, all I'm looking for is a powder/charge combination to start with and I'll find the velocity as I work up the load.

--HC

[hcb]

Grayfox: All good thoughts. I had to comment on the "bargains": so $%#^ true! Buying a truckload of tampons at 95% discount won't really help many folks. However, in this case, I'm just being me and trying what I think will work well. From another forum I got some loads from Quickload for RL15, RL17, and H4350. I started a touch over 10% reduction and worked up with each, found acceptable velocityressure-signs ratio with RL17 and H4350. I then shot some workups at 200yds in light gusts of wind...not too bad. Yes, it's far removed from the safe playground I usually stay in.

--HC

[A5BLASTER]

A5Blaster: Quickload software can give some guidelines from which starting points can be determined. On the other forum post (some other site) I have received some load data based on a QuickLoad simulation. I tested those loads today, over the chrono. The chrono, however, is just to satisfy my curiosity and to see where there were diminishing returns (more powder, not so much more speed). I use the chronograph with book loads to act as a second source of confirmation that the load is performing properly, to see if it's matching the published, anticipated velocity. With this combination, all I'm looking for is a powder/charge combination to start with and I'll find the velocity as I work up the load.

--HC

I have hear quickload to often gives incorrect data. So I don't use are trust any of it.

I start my bolt action grendel loads at 28 grains. So 28 grains should be ok in your bolt action.

But then again since there is no book data for your wildcat chamber any quickload data are any advice is a quess at best.

Keep us updated on how it goes

[hcb]

LRRPF52: I've seen your username before, maybe here (although I don't come "here" very often), maybe on other sites where you use the same name? I remember being favorably impressed with the posts of yours I've read. Thanks for weighing in on mine.

That data looks most useful. I think I have IMR 4895, not H4895. But I do have for sure Varget, CFE223, and Leverevolution. I've done a number of loads with the Leverevolution behind 100gr ELD-M in the 6.5 Grendel with no pressure signs but low velocity...that might work just fine with the super-heavy 147s.

The much lower MV with this weight was expected (I hunt with 100gr ELD-Ms handloaded instead of the factory Hdy Black 123gr ELD-Ms because I want higher MV in my hunting rifle and 23gr more makes a big difference), but I was hoping the lower MV wouldn't totally negate the reduced wind drift that the heavier bullet would offer in this application.

I burned a lot of hours today working up the load data I received from QL elsewhere. I may actually have to do grown-up stuff tomorrow. But in the next few days I will test these loads. Eventually I will come back at the end of this process and report my final progress and results. It may be awhile.

Thanks again for the information.

--HC

[hcb]

I have hear quickload to often gives incorrect data. So I don't use are trust any of it.

I start my bolt action grendel loads at 28 grains. So 28 grains should be ok in your bolt action.

But then again since there is no book data for your wildcat chamber any quickload data are any advice is a quess at best.

Keep us updated on how it goes

I don't know about how often QL gives inaccurate information but I can say that I started at the max load minus a touch over 10% reduction (10.1-10.3% reduction) for three powders and didn't get to load to the "max" either because of pressure signs or case volume limits. The point: yes, take QL loads with a grain of salt.

Yes, this is the sketchiest reloading project I've done. I don't enjoy the unknown, but I want the product, so I'm doing the work.

Yes, I will report progress. I'm slow as Christmas, though. It'll take time.

--HC