Perplexed

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • BobinNC
    Warrior
    • Oct 2017
    • 143

    Perplexed

    Being retired means often being bored. And being in the mid-90's outside, means it's too hot for this old man to be outside, doing anything. That equals bored squared. Boredom leads me to thinking, and that thinking can be "dangerous" to furry animals and other delicate creatures.

    My thinking today is along two disparate lines of thought: The first being --

    "Why is the 6.5mm 120 grain Speer Gold Dot not more popular among Grendel aficionado's"??

    What I mean is if your planning on hunting with your Grendel, and if they shoot well in your rifle (meaning you have to try them) the Speer has some major advantages over other 120-123 grain class bullets for the Grendel:

    These are:

    Bonded Core and Jacket, meaning no core jacket separation, also making it barrier blind for self-defense.

    High BC .457 G1 -- Only the Hornady 123 gr SST has a better BC @ .510

    Cost: Speer Gold Dot 120 gr .25 cents a bullet most places Which is cheap compared to other common 120-123 grain offerings. To Whit: Barnes 120 Gr TTSX .68 cents; Nosler 120 gr BT .40 cents; Hornady 123 gr SST .30 cents; Nosler 100 gr Partition .67 cents

    In summary it's a cheap, effective bullet that maintains the 1800+ expansion threshold out to 350 yards when started at 2450 FPS, which is a more than realistic velocity in 18" or longer barrels. 22" Barrels can get this bullet up to 100 FPS more.

    To just compare and contrast, the 300 Blackout, which is touted as an outstanding AR centric round out to 300 yds, is hard pressed to achieve 2350 FPS at the muzzle with a similar 125 grain bullet. This 300 BO combo hits the 1800 FPS barrier at 225 yds. in most rifles.

    So why is it not more popular among Grendel fans?? Let me hear your thoughts on this subject, so that my ennui can go away.......I'll tackle my second thought a bit later.

    Thanks,

    Bob


    Some light 120 gr Gold Dot viewing attached:

    Last edited by BobinNC; 07-16-2019, 09:33 PM.
  • A5BLASTER
    Chieftain
    • Mar 2015
    • 6192

    #2
    Probably because it's so new to the market.

    Comment

    • CJW
      Chieftain
      • Jun 2019
      • 1356

      #3
      Bob,
      I have wondered the same thing. Just ordered 4 boxes a couple of days ago to shoot.
      Will be following this thread with interest.

      Live Big,
      Chuck

      Comment

      • Mitdr774
        Warrior
        • Jul 2019
        • 104

        #4
        I have an assortment of loads using the 120 GD to try out once I have my CZ at least close to where it needs to be. Probably next outing with the CZ as the upcoming outing with it is for getting it on paper and close at 50 yards before I move to 100 yards. That being said, I have to double check that they will work in the CZ since they are loaded off of QL data from my Howa. The max OAL might not work. I know the magazine length limits me more than the Howa by about 0.020". I am hoping to work up a load with that bullet that works in both rifles. It has some promise based on what I can find on it.

        Comment

        • plainsman456
          Unwashed
          • Jul 2019
          • 15

          #5
          having tried bullets from 90 grain TNT to the 129 ELD it amazes me that it has been so hard to find a powder/bullet combination that will shoot tighter than 2 inches.

          After loading for many different ones when you find that pearl best hold on to it.

          Then finding a load that shoots well in 3 different rifles,with the only change being the barrel length,is harder.

          We did find a combo for the 90 grain as well as the 110 CTB it makes one feel good.

          Still have a lot of partial cans of powder to play with.

          This is fun.

          Comment

          • mv1arms
            Bloodstained
            • May 2019
            • 78

            #6
            Are the 120 grain Speer Gold Dot the same bullet as the Federal Fusion loading?

            Comment

            • Double Naught Spy
              Chieftain
              • Sep 2013
              • 2575

              #7
              Originally posted by BobinNC View Post
              "Why is the 6.5mm 120 grain Speer Gold Dot not more popular among Grendel aficionado's"??

              What I mean is if your planning on hunting with your Grendel, and if they shoot well in your rifle (meaning you have to try them) the Speer has some major advantages over other 120-123 grain class bullets for the Grendel:

              These are:

              Bonded Core and Jacket, meaning no core jacket separation, also making it barrier blind for self-defense.

              High BC .457 G1 -- Only the Hornady 123 gr SST has a better BC @ .510
              1. Not everybody reloads or cares to reload.

              2. Use of handloads for self defense is wildly frowned upon in the shooting community as introducing additional liability and drawing additional prosecutorial attention/nitpicking.

              3. High BC is great, but the differences in BC does not matter significantly for the distances most people are shooting in the vast majority of hunting and self defense situations.

              4. There are several other bullets with higher BC for the 6.5 Grendel.


              5. And probably the most salient reason, many folks already have something that works for them that they like just fine for their needs.
              Kill a hog. Save the planet.
              My videos - https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

              Comment

              • LRRPF52
                Super Moderator
                • Sep 2014
                • 8691

                #8
                I don't think the advertised BC of .457 G1 is accurate. Looks more like a .420 or lower BC to me with the token chamfer boat tail and no secant ogive, not that it matters much.

                123gr SST is more like .463 G1, nowhere near .510 G1.

                Now, as to being bonded, that is a good reason to look at it, as I'm not aware of many bonded options in the 120gr weight class. To the best of my knowledge, it is the only 120gr bonded 6.5mm bullet on the market.

                We have bonded bullets from Hornady and Nosler in the 129gr class, as well as some 140gr bonded bullets, but no 120s.

                Since 123gr SST had done so well for so many people, a lot won't fix what's already working.

                It will be interesting to see how the 120gr Gold Dot pans out. I won't be surprised if it does what most other expanding 120gr 6.5mm hunting bullets do.

                Anybody know what the expansion threshold is for it?
                NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                www.AR15buildbox.com

                Comment

                • A5BLASTER
                  Chieftain
                  • Mar 2015
                  • 6192

                  #9
                  Originally posted by LRRPF52 View Post
                  I don't think the advertised BC of .457 G1 is accurate. Looks more like a .420 or lower BC to me with the token chamfer boat tail and no secant ogive, not that it matters much.

                  123gr SST is more like .463 G1, nowhere near .510 G1.

                  Now, as to being bonded, that is a good reason to look at it, as I'm not aware of many bonded options in the 120gr weight class. To the best of my knowledge, it is the only 120gr bonded 6.5mm bullet on the market.

                  We have bonded bullets from Hornady and Nosler in the 129gr class, as well as some 140gr bonded bullets, but no 120s.

                  Since 123gr SST had done so well for so many people, a lot won't fix what's already working.

                  It will be interesting to see how the 120gr Gold Dot pans out. I won't be surprised if it does what most other expanding 120gr 6.5mm hunting bullets do.

                  Anybody know what the expansion threshold is for it?
                  Min is 1600 fps

                  Comment

                  • grayfox
                    Chieftain
                    • Jan 2017
                    • 4349

                    #10
                    From reasons/research I can't immediately put my fingers on, I've limited it in my mind to about 2100 even though IIRC Speer has it a bit lower, think I found some gel tests where its expansion was limited as you approach 2k. It has worked accuracy-wise, ok for me... but I currently find a better fit in my light creedmoor, as a 120-class light game load. "Light" as in light-shooting around 2660 ft/s...
                    I do think part of it is, other loads are handling my needs in the Grrr so better used in the bigger brother 6.5.
                    "Down the floor, out the door, Go Brandon Go!!!!!"

                    Comment

                    • Rosecrans1
                      Warrior
                      • Feb 2019
                      • 435

                      #11
                      The 120 Gold Dot is going to be my hunting round using 8208xbr. Going to do a ladder on top of what I shot the last time out with them but what I shot was very accurate and repeatable in my PSA 20" upper. They performed at 100 yds as well as my reload 123 ELD-M's. They opened up slightly more at 200 yds which is the limit of my club's range but that may be taken care of with some tweaking. I'm interested in what they do in my RAP once it's broken in. Since I can only varmint hunt with the PSA upper in PA, the RAP will be the one I may use in more seasons so the Gold Dot is high on my hopes of shooting well in both guns.

                      Comment

                      • BobinNC
                        Warrior
                        • Oct 2017
                        • 143

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Double Naught Spy View Post
                        1. Not everybody reloads or cares to reload. (However, this is the reloading section. Would you rather I talked about knitting??)


                        2. Use of handloads for self defense is wildly frowned upon in the shooting community as introducing additional liability and drawing additional prosecutorial attention/nitpicking. (Handloads are frowned upon by mostly overwrought gun scribes. And when you do find a court case it's all about handgun handloads. If you have to use a Grendel for actual self-defense, lawyers are the least of your problems.)


                        3. High BC is great, but the differences in BC does not matter significantly for the distances most people are shooting in the vast majority of hunting and self defense situations. ( If that were true we all would still being using muskets and round balls)

                        4. There are several other bullets with higher BC for the 6.5 Grendel. ( Which are all match bullets and generally unsuitable for hunting. Notice I preface "hunting bullets")


                        5. And probably the most salient reason, many folks already have something that works for them that they like just fine for their needs. ( Well fine then)

                        See my comments in red above. Thanks for your input.

                        Bob
                        Last edited by BobinNC; 07-16-2019, 09:51 PM.

                        Comment

                        • A5BLASTER
                          Chieftain
                          • Mar 2015
                          • 6192

                          #13
                          We don't do popcorn here. - LRRP
                          Last edited by LRRPF52; 07-17-2019, 02:52 AM. Reason: Technical forum

                          Comment

                          • HuntTXhogs
                            Warrior
                            • Jan 2014
                            • 549

                            #14
                            I had a 120 grain gold dot separate core from jacket on a pig

                            I don’t think it is as deadly in 6.5 Grendel as fusions or Gold Dots in other weights and /
                            Or calibers

                            I actually went away from it as a result Of the core jacket separation and lack of terminal performance in other hunting situations

                            YMMV

                            Comment

                            • Mitdr774
                              Warrior
                              • Jul 2019
                              • 104

                              #15
                              The jacket on the 120 GD is not a traditional jacket. Its plated on, but far thicker than a traditional plated bullet.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X