Lee dies constantly get a bad rap on internet forums so I decided to see exactly how they compare to the more expensive die sets
When I first started precision reloading I sized my cases with a Redding body die followed by a Lee Collet neck die. That worked great but it took two trips though a single stage press for each case,. I upgraded one of cartridges to a Redding S bushing die. About a year ago I became curious as to how the 2 methods stacked up against each other I did a test using .260 Remington brass sizing 15 by each method and checking the runout on the loaded bullets. Cases were Peterson small rifle .260 Remington on their 4th reload. Cases were prepped by depriming with a universal depinner, given a three hour wet spin with stainless pins then annealed. After annealing twenty were lubed and sized using each method then given a 15 minute spin in walnut to remove the lube. After the cleaning I trimmed them to 2.025 then necks deburred inside and out. Powder was added and 120 SMK's were seated using a Redding micrometer seater. All dies were cleaned with electrical contact cleaner and a microfiber cloth. Lee collet was adjusted uisng the instructions here http://forum.accurateshooter.com/thr...#post-36644901
I checked the concentricity using a Hornady Concentrity tool with the .0005 dial indicator. The tool was cleaned with contact cleaner where the base and bullet rides. Each cartridge was wiped with a microfiber cloth before it was checked. I insert the cartridge and check for runout by rotating the case in 90 degree increments while holding the "bullet" end of the holder to prevent rotation of the tool. If the runout was .0005 or less it passed. If greater than .001 I removed the cartridge, marked the "high" spot with a sharpie then rotated 90 degrees in the tool and checked a second time and a third time.
results - FL Redding bushing with the expander ball removed - 45 % came out with runout of less than .0005 with a extreme of .00175. Using the Redding body die with the Lee Collet neck sizer 25% were less than .0005 with a extreme of .002. I was able to tweak the runout on all of them back to less than .0005 with the Hornady tool. Most cases using both methods hovered around .001 to .0015 runout.
Last evening I prepped 15 once fired Starline 6.5 Grendel cases and resized them using a Lee FL resizer and Lee seating die. The cases were deprimed and resized in one step the loaded with 123 SMKs then checked for runout using the same rig I used on the .260 cases. I came up with the following number. maximum runout was .003, and minimum was .0005. The mean was .0018 runout with a std deviation of .0007. Checking seating depth using a Hornady comparator and a Starret 120a dial caliper I found a maximum base to ogive seating depth variance of .002. Most likely due to variations on the bullets themselves
External finish on the Lees is average, the Redding dies lettering and knurling is sharper and the finish is superb. Performance wise the Redding S bushing and the Lee Collet outperformed the Pacesetter die set but not by much. Lees are not as pretty and have zero internet brag factor but with a maximum runout of .003 and a average of less than .002 does it matter? The entire Lee set cost $25.99, a Redding S bushing FL die is $65.00 + another 10 - 15 for each bushing and a Redding micrometer seating die is $90.00. Lee does not make a standard Lee Collet Neck die for the 6.5 Grendel so that option is out unless you talk to Lee about having one custom made but Redding does have a body die for $33.00. Will I upgrade my dies in the future? may, maybe not. Certainly not until I own a bolt gun in the Grendel and maybe not even then depending on how the rifles print on paper at range. I cannot find any hard data anywhere on how much runout it takes to affect group sizes on paper. Opinions vary from .002 to .005 for precision ammo on the blogs.
When I first started precision reloading I sized my cases with a Redding body die followed by a Lee Collet neck die. That worked great but it took two trips though a single stage press for each case,. I upgraded one of cartridges to a Redding S bushing die. About a year ago I became curious as to how the 2 methods stacked up against each other I did a test using .260 Remington brass sizing 15 by each method and checking the runout on the loaded bullets. Cases were Peterson small rifle .260 Remington on their 4th reload. Cases were prepped by depriming with a universal depinner, given a three hour wet spin with stainless pins then annealed. After annealing twenty were lubed and sized using each method then given a 15 minute spin in walnut to remove the lube. After the cleaning I trimmed them to 2.025 then necks deburred inside and out. Powder was added and 120 SMK's were seated using a Redding micrometer seater. All dies were cleaned with electrical contact cleaner and a microfiber cloth. Lee collet was adjusted uisng the instructions here http://forum.accurateshooter.com/thr...#post-36644901
I checked the concentricity using a Hornady Concentrity tool with the .0005 dial indicator. The tool was cleaned with contact cleaner where the base and bullet rides. Each cartridge was wiped with a microfiber cloth before it was checked. I insert the cartridge and check for runout by rotating the case in 90 degree increments while holding the "bullet" end of the holder to prevent rotation of the tool. If the runout was .0005 or less it passed. If greater than .001 I removed the cartridge, marked the "high" spot with a sharpie then rotated 90 degrees in the tool and checked a second time and a third time.
results - FL Redding bushing with the expander ball removed - 45 % came out with runout of less than .0005 with a extreme of .00175. Using the Redding body die with the Lee Collet neck sizer 25% were less than .0005 with a extreme of .002. I was able to tweak the runout on all of them back to less than .0005 with the Hornady tool. Most cases using both methods hovered around .001 to .0015 runout.
Last evening I prepped 15 once fired Starline 6.5 Grendel cases and resized them using a Lee FL resizer and Lee seating die. The cases were deprimed and resized in one step the loaded with 123 SMKs then checked for runout using the same rig I used on the .260 cases. I came up with the following number. maximum runout was .003, and minimum was .0005. The mean was .0018 runout with a std deviation of .0007. Checking seating depth using a Hornady comparator and a Starret 120a dial caliper I found a maximum base to ogive seating depth variance of .002. Most likely due to variations on the bullets themselves
External finish on the Lees is average, the Redding dies lettering and knurling is sharper and the finish is superb. Performance wise the Redding S bushing and the Lee Collet outperformed the Pacesetter die set but not by much. Lees are not as pretty and have zero internet brag factor but with a maximum runout of .003 and a average of less than .002 does it matter? The entire Lee set cost $25.99, a Redding S bushing FL die is $65.00 + another 10 - 15 for each bushing and a Redding micrometer seating die is $90.00. Lee does not make a standard Lee Collet Neck die for the 6.5 Grendel so that option is out unless you talk to Lee about having one custom made but Redding does have a body die for $33.00. Will I upgrade my dies in the future? may, maybe not. Certainly not until I own a bolt gun in the Grendel and maybe not even then depending on how the rifles print on paper at range. I cannot find any hard data anywhere on how much runout it takes to affect group sizes on paper. Opinions vary from .002 to .005 for precision ammo on the blogs.
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