Weighting or measured charges?

[Mopardoctor]

Just curious, with the electronic scales of today what is more accurate, weighted loads or thrown charges from a powder measure?

Back in the '80s when I was shooting highpower with a M1 Garand we ran a practice match to find what was more accurate. We shot 20 rounds of GI ball(LC 67, $2 a box), 20 rounds of weighted charges and 20 rounds of measured charges. Brass was LC 67 and bullets were Speer 150G FMJ. The targets at the end of the match showed that the measured loads had better scores among all of our shooting group. Back then beam scales were only way to scale a load.

In the good old days GI ball was $2 a box and a bandoleer of 40 rounds was $5(with clips, cardboards, and bandoleer). My Garand cost $165.00 in 1988 from the DCM.

Mopar Doctor

[Whit]

I'm fairly new to reloading, but I have been around scales and balances for a while. I have a little bit of a lab background, and I can tell you, not all balances/scales are created equal. Some have crappy load cells which will tell a lie, and some are quite good. I work with analytical balances that will measure to the ten-thousandths of a gram pretty accurately. Obviously that's a piece of lab equipment that no one would use on their bench top for reloading, but my point is that some are better than others. A good balance/scale that is properly calibrated and cared for ought to be more accurate and more precise than a powder measure, but the benefit of a powder measure is it is mechanical, and won't get thrown off by things like a draft when the AC comes on, or a slight vibration of the bench, etc.

That being said, you should never trust an electric balance/scale without some standards (check weights) to verify whether the thing is telling you the truth.

[Mad Charlie]

"That being said, you should never trust an electric balance/scale without some standards (check weights) to verify whether the thing is telling you the truth"

I am 100% on board with that, and would say that applies to any scale used for handloading.

[BCHunter]

The fact that most adjustable measures tell you to check every so often would lend one to believe that weighted charges are more accurate.
I completely agree that the quality of the scale also matters.
As well as the type of powder some tending to be more consistent then others when measured.

[LR1955]

Just curious, with the electronic scales of today what is more accurate, weighted loads or thrown charges from a powder measure?

Back in the '80s when I was shooting highpower with a M1 Garand we ran a practice match to find what was more accurate. We shot 20 rounds of GI ball(LC 67, $2 a box), 20 rounds of weighted charges and 20 rounds of measured charges. Brass was LC 67 and bullets were Speer 150G FMJ. The targets at the end of the match showed that the measured loads had better scores among all of our shooting group. Back then beam scales were only way to scale a load.

In the good old days GI ball was $2 a box and a bandoleer of 40 rounds was $5(with clips, cardboards, and bandoleer). My Garand cost $165.00 in 1988 from the DCM.

Mopar Doctor

MD:

That is another good question. You may find that the common reloading electronic scales drift and balance beam scales are slow but pretty accurate once you zero them.

If you are using ball powders, the powder measure will be just as accurate as trying to weigh each charge.

Watch a Bench Rest match sometime and see how they load on the range. Most just load right from the measure.

Not even a chance the DCM M-2 Ball you used would equal even some pretty poor factory loads. Not because of the brass, primer, powder, or charge but because that 150 grain FMJ must be the worse possible bullet anyone could make for precision.

We would pull that bullet and replace it with a 155 Palma or 168 Sierra and the performance was as good as most very good hand loads. I will put a 173 FMJ over that LC 67 stuff the DCM used to sell for DCM matches. Not as good as a Match King but way better than the 150 grain ball bullet.

Bottom line -- you don't need to weigh out individual charges of ball powder. Set the measure and load. Your measure will probably be more precise than any of the automatic dispensers.

If you have a decent measure and a good technique, you can even get away with the measure only for Varget, 4895, 8208 and H-4350.

LR55

[SDW]

Hi all. I just joined the forum. Building a 6.5G upper at the moment. I gotta ask, what's a "weighted load"? I've been reloading a few other calibers for years and never heard that term. You don't by chance just mean weighed load do you?

FWIW, I agree with LR55. Balance beams are accurate but slow to use and hard to read. As most people know, electronic scales come with little weights for calibrating the scale periodically. It's a good idea to do this several times per session. I have a little Hornady electronic scale that likes to drift its zero around a little.

I have also heard that electronic scales need to warm up a little. So switch it on about a 15-30 minutes before using. I'd don't always follow this practice and maybe that's why I'm always re-calibrating. LOL

[Mopardoctor]

SDW, you are correct on the spelling. I weighed my measured charges last night and every one was right on. I've got into the habit of not trusting the powder measure because of the old days of using extruded powders like IMR 4064 and 4895. They will crunch when they go through the powder measure.

Mopar Doctor

[1Shot]

I throw my ball powders through my old RCBS powder dumper and for pistol blasting ammo I will throw flake powders but for serious shooting ammo I will weigh on my beam scale flake and I weigh all stick powders. If I take the time to reload it is going to be the best ammo I can make and the time it takes does not matter.

I burned a lot of that LC ball ammo as well as pulling the bullets and subbing 168 MK in the 1980s in an M1 Garand, but I also shot a bunch of FREE LC AP black tip in the early 1970s in my 1903A3 Springfield that a cousin that was in the State Guard brought me every month when he came from muster. A 250 round can every month helped keep this high school kid out of trouble. That Black Tip was also much more accurate than the M2 Ball in that rifle. I could get M2Ball at the K-mart back then for $2 out the door. I think it was $1.98 before tax. Got the UNISSUED 03A3 for $40 from a local box store in 1970. They had shopping carts full of them in boxes. YOu could get 7 & 8mm Mausers for $25 to $30. Those were the days. I got one of those DCM M1s in the 1980s and wore it out and traded it for a almost new Browning High Power 9mm pistol. Ended up around 2000 getting a collector grade 1954 Springfield M1 Garand (looked new) from a fellow who had gotten a number of DCM M1s back in the 70s. Gave $1000 for it.

[grayfox]

1Shot your part about the 30-06 in the 70's brings back memories... I was in the Navy and found an 03A3 in great shape at an army-navy store in '73, $47.50 out the door. One of my keepsakes, put a better stock on it and had a GS turn the bolt handle so I could put a scope on it.... wow, back in the day eh?

[captmorgan47]

I bought a lyman dps3.a while ago.........not impressed....doesn't seem to repeat at all...called the factory...they told me that you have to turn it on and let it adjust to its surroundings...takes about 24 hrs....didn't seem to work..........now I have gone back to the old way...balance scale and trickle charge all loads....I know lots of time involved...but still the best way to get accurate loads

[Rockhound]

The rcbs charge master has been the number 1 addition to my bench ever, I could never bring myself to trust a powder thrower.