Help me get started reloading - making decisions

[roor]

[Sticks]

...

Edit: crimping shouldn’t be necessary with a properly sized bushing die. If you go conventional FL, lee factory crimps seem to work best.

Good luck!

I have read more than once of persons fighting to lower SDs and tighten groups...even get something resembling a group, having gone past all the hight dollar presses and bushing dies to extremes (cases withing .01 grain, H2O capacity match, neck turning, annealing, bullet weights and lengths, etc) just to find out that a $14 crimp die was all that was needed.

Ironically this is my next step with a couple of bullets that I have been fighting.

[FW Conch]

^ It will be good to hear how that works out for You. ^

[LR1955]

I have a long time friend who is teaching me the in's and out's of reloading. He uses the RCBS press and it seems to be a good press. He has all of the premium grade accessories to work with that make it pretty easy.

I want to get started in reloading. Unfortunately, my budget is small and it may take a while but I first want to start focusing on the Grendel reloading to start.

I have purchased the reloading and hunting guides and have read them cover to cover. I have also picked up a few things at gun shows also.

Brownells has the Classic Hornady lock and load kit on sale now for around $250. It also comes with 500 projectiles from Hornady. Seems like a deal hard to pass up on. Just not sure if the system is a good system, I really like the idea of lock and load bushing system.

I could pick up the RCBS Suppreme for a little more money. I saw one at academy the other day on sale for $290 I believe.

Should I just go ahead and order the Classic or work on getting the RCBS? Either one is within my budget.

Hornady and RCBS are pretty much equal in terms of quality. I give the edge to Hornady and if I were in your shoes, I would get the Hornady and the 500 free bullets. 500 match grade bullets run around $150.00 these days.

If you get heavily involved with the shooting sports, you will probably end up discarding some of the kit and buying better equipment but I doubt you will get rid of the press.

LR55

[Crusty]

Sticks, an under appreciated significant factor in precision loads is the bullet grip by the neck. This in turn is affected by neck and bullet dimensions, metal characteristics and friction. A crimp overrides these factors and provides a consistent bullet release which can result in more shooting precision. A tighter bullet grip also causes the pressure to build more before bullet release and this can have a beneficial effect on the pressure profile in the barrel.

Many have been dumbfounded by witnessing military 7.62 rounds that shoot more precisely than handloads and a major reason for that is that military bullets are seated with pitch on them to seal against water intrusion and this has the secondary effect of providing a tighter grip and more consistent bullet release.

[ported45]

The kits are always a better deal than buying parts separately. Just add up the prices individually and see for yourself. The only time it's better to piece things out is when you can't get what you want in a kit; for example you may not like the powder measure or scale that comes with the press kit you want.
And what is up with "buying parts you don't need"??? The only part I won't use in my RCBS kit is the case lube pad because I prefer spray lube.

I bought the Rock Chucker Supreme Kit last december because the press, measure, scale and primer tool are all excellent. Each of those items is known to be of good quality and will last forever.
I looked at the Lee kits for a long time but didn't like the plastic scale and powder measure even though they work well and the reviews are good. But that whole kit is only about $120.

For me it often comes down to money. I think that Hornady kit is a good one and you'd probably be happy with it for a long time. I don't know of any problems with any of it and I bought a Hornady hand primer tool separately and like it as well as my RCBS.
That free bullet rebate is worth $100 or so and is hard to ignore.

If you can I'd wait for a few months and see what goes on sale; for some reason the prices sometimes drop when hunting season approaches in the fall. Take the time to learn more about what you really need.
I bought that RC Supreme kit for $250 (with free shipping) on sale and there was a $100 rebate, so I paid $150.

Edit: I think that the Johnny's Reloading Bench videos are worth the time. Watching the beginning of the series talks about the Lee set but is good info about all the hardware. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lDL9tUnfVQ&t=119s

My case lube pad is shot. Well, the plastic tray and cover anyway. Don't have a clue how they got cracked.

Wanna send me yours that you won't use?

[Popeye212]

I am also looking at a Grendel Neck Sizing Die. I don't see a need to do a full sizing every single time

If you are loading for the AR platform I strongly suggest you do not neck size. Not really needed there are arguments for and against I neck sized only in my bolt guns. But have already stuck a couple of cases backing off the sizing die. Have abandoned that idea.

[ported45]

Thanks to everyone who has replied to this elementary request for reloading press feedback. bj139, I wish I had seen your post earlier today. That Lee set is a real value. I ended up ordering the Hornady lock and load classic. The free 500 projectiles was a real seller for me. I am looking at the 150 gr interlock 30 caliber for my 300 blackout. I hardly ever shoot it because ammo is so expensive. Plus if I end up getting the hornady dies, I could potentially get another 100 projectiles.

The remaining items I need to to order are the resizing dies, the Hornady micrometer seating stem, the Lee crimp die, and I am going to look into the suggested harbor freight rock tumbler. I have the dial calipers and Hornady bullet comparators. I don't have a trimmer but hopefully I will not need one for a little while.

I am also looking at a Grendel Neck Sizing Die. I don't see a need to do a full sizing every single time. I plan on sorting my brass and keeping the brass with the firearm together for the life cycle of the brass. Any feedback regarding neck sizing only after the initial firing will be helpful. My reloading mentor frowns at the idea of just sizing the neck and suggest a full sizing each time.

If your buddy has been in reloading for a while, you should be able to borrow his trimmer or have him trim for you. You will be surprised how often you will need to trim on some cartridges!

[bj139]

Thanks to everyone who has replied to this elementary request for reloading press feedback. bj139, I wish I had seen your post earlier today. That Lee set is a real value. I ended up ordering the Hornady lock and load classic. The free 500 projectiles was a real seller for me. I am looking at the 150 gr interlock 30 caliber for my 300 blackout. I hardly ever shoot it because ammo is so expensive. Plus if I end up getting the hornady dies, I could potentially get another 100 projectiles.

The remaining items I need to to order are the resizing dies, the Hornady micrometer seating stem, the Lee crimp die, and I am going to look into the suggested harbor freight rock tumbler. I have the dial calipers and Hornady bullet comparators. I don't have a trimmer but hopefully I will not need one for a little while.

I am also looking at a Grendel Neck Sizing Die. I don't see a need to do a full sizing every single time. I plan on sorting my brass and keeping the brass with the firearm together for the life cycle of the brass. Any feedback regarding neck sizing only after the initial firing will be helpful. My reloading mentor frowns at the idea of just sizing the neck and suggest a full sizing each time.

You should be very happy with the Hornady system. The breech lock systems are worth the extra money.
You will not need a rock tumbler, micrometer seating stem or Lee crimp die. I would wait until you load and shoot some.

Don't get a Grendel neck sizer now. You can partially resize brass by unscrewing your die 1/2 turn or so.
Someone here did a systematic study on this and got better groups.
Others swear you need to bump the shoulder back with a semiauto.
I have partially resized to get my best groups.

[Crusty]

Since my cases are fire formed to my chamber I bump size them in my FL die and check that they fit into my chamber gauge and I never have a round that won't load. I bump size the shoulder first then follow with a neck sizing in my bushing neck die and finally a mandrel die for accurately sizing the neck ID.

I think that minimal sizing is required once your cases are formed to your chamber, and the better that your cases conform to your chamber (with just enough head space to load reliably) the more likely it is that the bullets all start from nearly the same point in space inside your barrel and the more likely that they'll all impact similarly.

130 RDF 6-28.jpg

[Randy99CL]

My case lube pad is shot. Well, the plastic tray and cover anyway. Don't have a clue how they got cracked.

Wanna send me yours that you won't use?

Sorry, not worth the effort and expense for an $8 item.

[LR1955]

Thanks to everyone who has replied to this elementary request for reloading press feedback. bj139, I wish I had seen your post earlier today. That Lee set is a real value. I ended up ordering the Hornady lock and load classic. The free 500 projectiles was a real seller for me. I am looking at the 150 gr interlock 30 caliber for my 300 blackout. I hardly ever shoot it because ammo is so expensive. Plus if I end up getting the hornady dies, I could potentially get another 100 projectiles.

The remaining items I need to to order are the resizing dies, the Hornady micrometer seating stem, the Lee crimp die, and I am going to look into the suggested harbor freight rock tumbler. I have the dial calipers and Hornady bullet comparators. I don't have a trimmer but hopefully I will not need one for a little while.

I am also looking at a Grendel Neck Sizing Die. I don't see a need to do a full sizing every single time. I plan on sorting my brass and keeping the brass with the firearm together for the life cycle of the brass. Any feedback regarding neck sizing only after the initial firing will be helpful. My reloading mentor frowns at the idea of just sizing the neck and suggest a full sizing each time.

If you are going to shoot your Grendel ammo through a gas operated rifle, you will need to full length resize the cases. Do yourself a favor now and get FL dies. If you really want to do yourself a favor, get a FL sizing die that uses neck bushings.

If you want to know what dies to get, run a search since there must be about fifty threads on the 'best' dies to buy.

Be happy you didn't buy the Lee kit.

L55

[grendelnubi]

All of you are awesome. I am noting each and every reply. I have moved past using neck sizing only and will get a FL sizing die that uses a neck bushing. I am looking at the Redding Type S Bushing die. Hornady Match dies use neck bushing but I don't see any listed for the grendel. I can find the redding type s for around $75 dollars at midway. I measure my factory Black and AG and it is between .289 and .290 outside diameter with a bullet. Not sure exactly which bushing I may need to get the right neck tension. There are various ideas floating around concerning this.

[grendelnubi]

I think I would prefer to get the expander die that uses the mandrel. It is a little more cost effective than the redding type S.

[Crusty]

Here's the short version of that particular keg of worms you're thinking about opening. You'll eventually wind up with a bag of bushings at $20-40 apiece.

You start with your bullet diameter and work outwards, with an allowance for brass spring back. First you have to measure your bullets and then decide how much interference (often called bullet tension but that's a misnomer) you want and subtract it (.003" is common but until you've tried less and more you won't know for sure). Then you have to add the wall thickness of your brass (but wait - factory brass isn't uniform in wall thickness and it differs by manufacturer) so you have to turn the necks to make them a uniform thickness all the way around and work hardened brass (sized and fired) springs back unpredictably more than annealed brass so you'll need a way to anneal your brass to get a consistent diameter after spring back. Subtract the expected spring back, total it all and order a bushing. And that expander inside your die can wreck these carefully determined dimensions if it's the wrong size.

Change one parameter by a thousandth and you need a new bushing.

You can also measure the average neck diameter of several loaded rounds and subtract the amount of interference that you want and estimated spring back and order that diameter if you ignore varying wall thickness, but a neck that's thinner on one side will release the bullet towards the weaker thinner side first, forcing the bullet to start from off the central axis.

So how do you come up with these numbers - you have to measure stuff. Reliable calipers are good enough for most measurements but for neck wall thickness you'll need a tube or ball micrometer, and they don't give those away anywhere that I know of. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised to see a reloading manufacturer give away bushing dies to newbs knowing that they'll get their money back and more.

It's a mild form of dementia that you're proposing for yourself. My justification is that it keeps me out of bars.