Heavy Cast Bullets

[chaps]

I've been searching the forum and see some folks are casting bullets for their Grendel. Has a sweet spot been found for a heavy cast bullet, supersonic preferably? Thanks in advance for replies.

[sneaky one]

Lead only based? Meh. It can clog the gas system... Best to stay with the copper based outer shells.

[chaps]

Lead only based? Meh. It can clog the gas system... Best to stay with the copper based outer shells.

Has that been your experience? What hardness were yours cast to, and did you try powder coating?
I've not had issues myself, and know a few others that have had great success. I've done it with pistol calibers (DI) mainly, but also 223 (piston), and 7.62 (DI and Piston), and figured to give it a whirl with the 6.5G, really for less expensive shooting on steel out to 150-200.

I've been told its best to stay with 308 and 30-06, and yet here we are.

[JASmith]

Chaps,

The worst case scenario would be heavy barrel leading and a blocked gas port.

The best case scenario is normal gas system operation and powder only fouling consistent with standard bullets.

If you feel comfortable with clearing the crud from the worst case scenario, then go for it!

[JASmith]

Ammoguide.com has a current thread "Help with a cast bullet load" where the caliber is .223 and the rifle is an AR.

BTW rhere are currently 676 loads for the Grendel there!

[chaps]

My research led me to NOE's Grendel specific bullet "266-125-FN 2 cavity GC (6.5 Grendel)." Found another 130gr FP bullet, but seems like the NOE is the reference point.

[Von Gruff]

That NOE bullet is my design that was given to them after a group buy from another chap fell through. I shot it a lot in my bolt GM with good results including a few goats. I found blue dot to be the best powder with no leading when cast from my alloy that is about 12BHN. A properly sized bullet will not foul a barrel and I can fire hundreds of shots and only put a patch with Eds Red through to make sure the powder fouling does not acumulate. A single patch then a dry patch is about all it takes so I cant see it fouling the gas port on your AR.

[Smoke]

Von Gruff care to share that load .. PM if you want
Thanks

[Smoke]

Also for those that into trying new things I am shooting 5.56 , 300 blackout and 458 socom AR's with powdercoated bullets and near jacketed velocities no leading and most times 2 patches for a totally clean and oiled barrel with sub MOA accuracy .. It can be done

[Von Gruff]

Von Gruff care to share that load .. PM if you want
Thanks

Smoke my load is for the grendel Max but it should be good data for the standard grendel as well. I load the 123gn cast bullet over 11gn blue dot for a very good load at 1650fps (50/50 ww/Pb) Al GC that has killed goats to 150yds Blue Dot is the best cast bullet powder I have found and I use it for jacketed bullets in my little 20 VarTarg and cast in the 6.5 GM, 7x57, 303Brit, 400 LS so it is very broad use powder with the same load characteristics for all cases with starting load being 20% of case volume and max being 55%. It is not position sensative so there is no need for fillers etc and generally I have found a good accurate load with it and especially in the Grendel Max it has given me an 1 3/8 10 shot 100yd group. I have been able to shoot with no leading and only the normal powder fouling to clean up after a couple of 100 shots. Cheap and accurate ---what more could you want.

For the standard grendel I would look at somewhere in the 9.5 _ 10-5 gn range for best results but your rifle will tell you what it wants

[bj139]

Here is some information that might be useful for someone trying to develop cast bullet loads for the Grendel.

http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/ByFireArm/Accurate%20loading%20of%20cast%20bullets%20for%20the%206.5%20Swede.pdf

[Von Gruff]

Larry Gibson has an oversized opinion of himself and his so called rpm theory has been debunked by so many that he a is a laughing stock among those that actually have ability and knowledge of cast bullets and how to get them to shoot acurately.

[Von Gruff]

He states that

The problems are several; first there is the fast twist. Normal cast bullets accuracy is adversely
affected by RPM above a certain RPM threshold. That threshold is usually in the 120-140,000 RPM
range depending on bullet design and the loading components used. Thus with normal cast bullet
loads accuracy with the 6.5 Swede will be best in the 1200 to 1500 fps range with cast bullets.
Going above this RPM threshold very quickly can have an adverse non-linear affect on accuracy.


In my own 7x57 I was shooting a 160gm cast bullet at 2415fps with 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 accuracy at 100 yds and if you use either of these rpm calculators

Assuming muzzle velocity in Feet/Sec and twist rate in inches, it should be

720*(muzzle velocity)/twist rate

or this one which shows how the 720* was arrived at.

Divide 12 by the twist
Then multiply the answer by 60.
Then multiply the next answer by feet per second.

Say you have a 10 in 12 twist 30-06 : 12 / 10 = 1.2
So 1.2 X 60 =72
Then 72 X 3000 fps =216,000 rpm's

Then my 7x57 with a 9 in twist far exceeds his "stated upper limit"

so 12/9 = 1.3333 x 60 = 79.9999 x 2415(fps) = 193,199.9999rpm so it is way above the 120-140krpm that he so wrongly states is the upper limit for accuracy

This is a couple of groups at 100 yds when adjusting the scope. The 39gn 2209 / H4350 pushed the bullet to 2415fps with no leading and good accuracy and has killed goats to near 200 yds. The bullet has a lino shank with sot nose for better than nosler partition performance as it stays intact on impact.


I have taken my Grendel Max to over 2200fps with cast bullets and also have good accuracy which is over 198k rpm so that also blows his theory out the window.
A properly sized cast bullet of apropriate alloy and with good lube in accurately sized cases and loaded to the best advantage will easily perform well over 20-2200fps with good hunting accuracy. It is also true that high velocity alone is not what kills animals or impacts on targets but for rifles anything in the 1900fps + range is a great load however the higher velocity will extend the range. I have killed out to near 200yds with cast bullets and have a great deal of faith in them. Cast properly in apropriate alloy they will not fail as some jacketed bullets have been shown to do.
There are so many misconceptions and just plain self opinionated theories being passed off as fact on the net that a lot of those contemplating cast bullets are being put off what is in reality a valuable and cost efective part of the shooting experience that so many of us enjoy.

[Von Gruff]

A 160 gn 7mm cast bullet after leaving the barrel at 2415fps stays intact but gives excellent expansion and therefore killing ability and would be effective to 250 yds.
You can see the demarcation between the hard shank and the soft nose in this pic

[bj139]

Thanks VG. How do you weld soft lead alloy onto hard lead alloy?