Hornady 6.5 neck size die?

[s3silver]

I have a Hornady full length size die. Works pretty good but it works the brass pretty hard and there is nothing wrong with a properly used neck size die.

Is your die the Hornady short neck one mentioned by Ramslammer?

[LR1955]

Please expand that "properly used" statement.
Background. All ammo is home brew. First shot fired from brand new upper from Grendelhunter.com on Saturday getting the new sight adjusted. Whole rig worked like a jewel. After zero I shot 5 more for grins (50 yards) three in one hole two very close...I need more practice. Monday wanted to do more (oh..I shoot from my porch ��) and built some more "sample" batches. All attempts were no bang. Primer was perfect...like new, and every extraction required a delicate "hammer".
Since then I have been to Utube U, and have read extensively on thus forum.. Learned tons. Today I loaded some fresh rounds, but noticed the resize die was not down onto the shell plate so made that adjustment. Also I watched many videos on cleaning and lube of AR, and cleaned, lubed, measured shell casings, and.. And... Today the gun goes bang (oh, and target indicates GREAT results). Virgin brass loads (Nosler) chambers, and will extract (not fired) fairly easy. Reused brass loads chamber, but are very very hard to extract from the gun. Is dechambering important? Mmmm not usually, but sometimes we need to stop the hunt, get safe, go home.. I've been shooting/ hunting for a long time, but this AR is a whole new thing for me. I've owned a Ruger SR 556 for about a year +, and loading shooting, etc is all pretty usual, BUT all ammo is " factory"
So the question is: what more do I need to learn? I want to increase proficiency, but think I need to be patient and do a few more things with precision. Oh, got all parts, except one, to do bullet seating measurement. Need the 6.5 bushing that fits in/on the caliper bullet seat. Ordered, but waiting for back order. Still trying to find a source for magnum primers also.

A1:

Most common problem guys have with chambering and extracting is that guys fail to bump the shoulder on the Grendel brass sufficiently for function. There are probably fifty threads on bumping brass so run a search if you want. All say the same thing -- bump the shoulders back until the brass can easily chamber and extract. Done. This won't happen unless you use a die that fits the shoulder angle of the Grendel brass so get a sizing die made for the Grendel. Doesn't need thousands of dollars in measuring gear. Keep sizing it down until you can drop the brass into the chamber, let the bolt go forward, and then extract the brass easily with no resistance. Does not take a investment in a bunch of tools and is not magic.

Second most common issue is guys thinking that by producing a bunch of ammo that does not vary between rounds in any manner or form (sorting bullets, brass by weight, individual measuring of powder, reaming primer pockets, neck turning, etc.), that somehow they will become a better marksman. If a person wants to become a better marksman, find a load that you can trust for the target size you are shooting and then practice under the conditions you most expect to encounter when shooting. Accept a load that is consistently around a minute at 300 yards (not 100 yards) using 5 shot strings (not three shot strings) and then spend at least 10 times more time practicing than handloading.

LR55

[ricsmall]

A1:

Most common problem guys have with chambering and extracting is that guys fail to bump the shoulder on the Grendel brass sufficiently for function. There are probably fifty threads on bumping brass so run a search if you want. All say the same thing -- bump the shoulders back until the brass can easily chamber and extract. Done. This won't happen unless you use a die that fits the shoulder angle of the Grendel brass so get a sizing die made for the Grendel. Doesn't need thousands of dollars in measuring gear. Keep sizing it down until you can drop the brass into the chamber, let the bolt go forward, and then extract the brass easily with no resistance. Does not take a investment in a bunch of tools and is not magic.

Second most common issue is guys thinking that by producing a bunch of ammo that does not vary between rounds in any manner or form (sorting bullets, brass by weight, individual measuring of powder, reaming primer pockets, neck turning, etc.), that somehow they will become a better marksman. If a person wants to become a better marksman, find a load that you can trust for the target size you are shooting and then practice under the conditions you most expect to encounter when shooting. Accept a load that is consistently around a minute at 300 yards (not 100 yards) using 5 shot strings (not three shot strings) and then spend at least 10 times more time practicing than handloading.

LR55

Very good advice on the one minute load and practice. After practice that load may magically become 1/2- 3/4 minute!! Well put 55

Richard

[Aged1]

LR55,
Thanks a ton. I presumed that all dies are equal, but Grendel upper is my first auto feed rifle that I have loaded for and obviously I have much to learn. I will search for those other posts that cover shoulder bumping. Could you recommend a "die made for the Grendel"?
I need to make/post a sign at my range: "the more I practice the luckier I get". I shoot better than most of my friends, but none of them can shoot from their porch. I do have a sign posted in my work shop that can apply here too: "Vegetarian..old Indian word for lousy hunter."

[LR1955]

LR55,
Thanks a ton. I presumed that all dies are equal, but Grendel upper is my first auto feed rifle that I have loaded for and obviously I have much to learn. I will search for those other posts that cover shoulder bumping. Could you recommend a "die made for the Grendel"?
I need to make/post a sign at my range: "the more I practice the luckier I get". I shoot better than most of my friends, but none of them can shoot from their porch. I do have a sign posted in my work shop that can apply here too: "Vegetarian..old Indian word for lousy hunter."

A1:

Run a search on Grendel dies. I recall that the last thread we had on Grendel dies was pretty good.

Or someone else can link to it.

I ask because I need to head to the range for my training!

LR55

[Aged1]

RCBS full length.. Many search no find'm

A1:

Run a search on Grendel dies. I recall that the last thread we had on Grendel dies was pretty good.

Or someone else can link to it.

I ask because I need to head to the range for my training!

LR55

Saw your and other posts. Key thought.."like RCBD over hornady" I've done many searches this AM and find 0, zero, none RCBS. Right now my inclination is to slow down, read/learn more, and buy something that will work. Looks like Redding is available (>>$), and Forester ($ on par with the pack).
I have about 75ea virgin brass that will help in my current itch to shoot this new Grendel AR more, but some day I'll get invited to slay some pigs, and I want Grendel in the field.
My back up pig gun is a high wall in 38-55, and there the question is how money pigs will it take to stop a 265 grain .380 lead pill😄

[dega37]

Redding now makes a Grendel neck bushing die. I bought one

[LR1955]

Saw your and other posts. Key thought.."like RCBD over hornady" I've done many searches this AM and find 0, zero, none RCBS. Right now my inclination is to slow down, read/learn more, and buy something that will work. Looks like Redding is available (>>$), and Forester ($ on par with the pack).
I have about 75ea virgin brass that will help in my current itch to shoot this new Grendel AR more, but some day I'll get invited to slay some pigs, and I want Grendel in the field.
My back up pig gun is a high wall in 38-55, and there the question is how money pigs will it take to stop a 265 grain .380 lead pill��

A1:

I like Redding dies and have their high end set that uses neck bushings for the sizing die. I bought them because I like Redding products and also, at the time there was only one other choice which was Lee. I had a set of Lee dies and they must be the worse dies anyone could make for a Grendel so I got rid of them and bought the Redding dies. Have had no complaints but never had any with Redding products.

Since then RCBS, Hornady, and maybe some others have made Grendel dies. You get what you pay for but my friend LRRP52 swears by the Hornady dies. Others have sworn at them.

The Redding bushings are neck bushings. I own a number of dies (Redding included) that have bushings for the neck and shoulder and I would go with a set of dies with interchangeable neck and shoulder bushings over a simple neck bushing. This is because you will have to bump the shoulders back on the Grendel brass. Some more than others due to chamber reaming.

LR55

[LRRPF52]

I will say that with my Howa Mini, if I get within a few thousandths of SAAMI maximum cartridge with it, specifically the headspace datum on the middle of the shoulder, the bolt handle is very difficult to close, so I sized down all my brass to be close to factory ammo, which has more slop in it for reliable feeding.

Everything closes smoothly with full-length sizing that way.

My shoulders are at 1.209" to 1.215" depending on the brass. Different brass responds to full-length sizing and shoulder bump with slight variation in shoulder movement, even using spray-on lube.

[Aged1]

Thanks for everyone's input. Shopping now for new dies for Grendel. Anyone have any thoughts on Forster "full length" dies?
Midway has the Redding choices, and Forster. Going to Brownell soon to see their selection.

[rickt300]

I contacted Hornady and they say their "short" version of the neck size die works perfectly with the 6.5 Grendel. So I ordered one, should be here Tuesday or so and will immediatly see if I can improve on those .7 groups and improve case life. Also plan on working up a good load with the 120 grain Sierra Prohunter.

[rickt300]

Ok I neck sized my oldest brass after it had been fired with a full power load, topped the brass with 5 120 grain Prohunters and 15 123 grain AMAX's. Powder charge is 30.0 grains of BLC-2 using a CCI 450 primer. This brass has been used to launch 190 bullets down range and started as 123 gr, Hornady SST factory loads. There were 19 left as I ruined one setting up the Hornady New Dimension size die. All loads were either at the top or worked up to full power loads. In firing these latest loads one split at the shoulder. At any rate chambering was "snug". I got 2 five shot groups of almost exactly .5, the Prohunters shot poorly barely breaking 1 1/2 inches. I used the last five AMAX's to exactly center POI 1/2 inch high at 100 yards. So I embarked on annealing the brass, never tried it before so why not. Will post result positive or otherwise.

[ricsmall]

Rick

I've found in my experience that the pro hunters like to be pushed pretty hard, probably unattainable in the Grendel. I've loaded them in 243, 308, 300 win mag, 25-06, and all were most accurate at max published loads or a tick over. The 243 is an old sako that will one hole the pro hunters with three shot groups.

Richard

[s3silver]

I contacted Hornady and they say their "short" version of the neck size die works perfectly with the 6.5 Grendel. So I ordered one, should be here Tuesday or so and will immediatly see if I can improve on those .7 groups and improve case life. Also plan on working up a good load with the 120 grain Sierra Prohunter.

Now we're on to something. Rickt, let us know how it works out. Almost ordered one yesterday, now I'll wait to hear your experience.

[rickt300]

Ok I annealed the case necks and shoulders using the propane torch and water tray method. Put the point of the blue flame on the case necks for a count of forty, one and two and three counted. the metal just barely tried to change color before being tripped into the water. I then full length resized with the die set so that when you closed the bolt on a case you noticed just the slightest drag. I dropped the powder charge to 26.8 grains, topped with a 123 AMAX, primed with a CCI 450. The annealing made sizing much easier and the expander ball came back out of the case with way less drag. This lighter load had a different POI than the 30 grain load so I spent 6 shots getting it 1/2 inch high at 100 yards. It seemed to exactly follow the scope adjustments and the final three went into a ragged hole. So I went back in and sized the 9 cases in the neck size die loaded them the same way and went to check if POI had changed. One shot and it landed in the middle of the ragged hole. I could use this rifle in our annual Easter Egg shoot if I wanted. I don't know what to give credit to for the improved shooting, but the powder charge change and the more even case neck tension of the annealed cases are my guess.