Hornady Full Length die forming 7.62x39 cases into 6.5 Gren

[hcnfan@yahoo.com]

I have a Hornady custom 6.5 Grendal die set. The Full Length sizing die is crushing cases. Any suggestions. See attached file

[lbbf]

Wow never seen that before. I just ordered a set of Hornady custom dies for my Grendel. In for the help. The only thing I can think of is the neck bushing is incorrect and instead of sliding into the case it is crushing the neck down???

[LR1955]

I have a Hornady custom 6.5 Grendal die set. The Full Length sizing die is crushing cases. Any suggestions. See attached file

HCNF:

Suggestion 1: Buy Grendel brass. We used 7.62 X 39 brass for two reasons. Primarily we could not find Grendel brass and secondary some hunters didn't want to lose expensive (at the time) Lapua brass. We did not like ruining 1 of ten pieces of 7.62 brass trying to size it down, did not like the process at all, and did not like having to fireform to blow out the cases. Also, we didn't like the short life span before the primer pockets opened up.

Suggestion 2: Remove the expander button from your Grendel die. You may not need to open them up unless you are using Lee dies. The Lee expander button is too big and needs to be turned down. If you have Lee dies, throw them away and buy dies that work. If you keep the expander button in, start the brass very slowly into the die until you feel it open up over the expander button. If you use the technique of sizing without the expander button, you can seat your bullet but chances are the bullet will expand the neck as it is seated which can make the round look pretty ugly. Looks awful but will shoot well enough to have some fun and blow out the brass.

Suggetion 3: Make sure your die, expander button and cartridge are in good alignment when you push the brass into the die. Of course if your die or cartridge isn't aligned well, and the expander button (if you use it), you will crush the case much like I see in the picture. Crushed to one side.

Suggestion 4: Use some spray lube like Hornady, or Dillon and get it into the neck. If you are using an obsolete type of lube like Imperial, use some of the spray lube instead.

Suggestion 5: Use a 7mm BR sizing die to size the neck a little before running it through your 6.5 Grendel die.

You will still ruin about 1 in ten pieces by crushing them. Counting your fireforming shot, you will get maybe three more before the primer pockets open up too much to be safely used.

Best idea, buy Grendel brass. Even the cheap PPU stuff is better than what you are trying to do.

LR1955

[NugginFutz]

^^^ This, on every point.

While you might save a bit of change by reforming the x39 brass, the gains are seriously outweighed by the issues.

[hcnfan@yahoo.com]

Thanks for the reply. I have tried with and without the expander button. Every case crushes. I tried moving the expander up and down, no luck. I tried very slow insertion and fast. No luck. I use Hornady paste lube. Very frustrating.

I have a bunch of 7.62 brass and would like to figure this out.

[mongoosesnipe]

when i am doing caliber sizing change on brass;7.62x39 to grendel, 7.62x54r to 8x50r, 223 to 7mm tcu, 348 to 41swiss..... i usually start with well lubed brass no expander (unless i am going up in size obviously then i will usually lower the expander to mess with the neck first as that is the point where it usually goes bad) then i start with the the die only half way into the press so as to only size a small portion of the case then i lower the ram rotate the brass a little and screw the die in a 1/4 turn and repeat until the case if fully sized.... for the most part if good brass exists and is readily available for a reasonable price i don't mess with forming my own... i used to form 300 whisper brass but since black out has come around and i can buy blackout brass for pretty much the same price as 223/556 i don't bother with that anymore i have only formed a few grendel cases just playing around for the most part i only form wildcats and obsolete brass

i also lube with dillon spray lube or my home made spray (rubbing alcohol with lanolin) or if doing a serious body change i will use straight lanolin on a patch to grease up the case and your dies need to be very clean any extra friction will make the process that much more difficult

[kmon]

Understand the wanting to use the brass you already have.

What is the diameter of the little bit of neck after sizing/crushing. I could be wrong but looks like the neck is not going into that part of the die to neck it down and just crushing since it has no place left to go (like it is catching on the shoulder portion of the die). Like suggested in one of the posts above if you had a 7mmBR die run the brass through that doing a staged step approach.

Then again I could be totally off base

If the above is the case try chamfer and debur the brass before sizing, heavy on the debur part and lube the case well.

Is this once fired brass, if so have had better luck annealing before sizing, soften that neck/shoulder before sizing.

[LR1955]

Thanks for the reply. I have tried with and without the expander button. Every case crushes. I tried moving the expander up and down, no luck. I tried very slow insertion and fast. No luck. I use Hornady paste lube. Very frustrating.

I have a bunch of 7.62 brass and would like to figure this out.

HCF:

Try the Dillon spray lube. Never let me down sizing 7.62 X 39 brass. Get the lube into the sizing die, too.

Not sure if the Hornady dies use bushings but if they do, you probably need a larger diameter bushing. Some of that 7.62 X 39 brass is much thicker than Grendel brass.

That's about all I know of.

I am getting a feeling that by the end of this, you may have spent more money than you will save.

LR1955

[hcnfan@yahoo.com]

Thanks. You might be right, but I have to figure this out. If someone else can do it, so can I. :-)

[JASmith]

I am pretty sure you are using the standard die and not a bushing die. The bushings tend to have a more square entry which makes getting the neck started problematic.

Best bet, use the 7mm BR sizing die suggested by LR1955 as an intermediate and be sure to keep the necks well lubed.

[204 AR]

I wonder if a bushing die, without a bushing, would start the neck down? Then add the bushing, or use the regular fl die for the second step? If I had some I'd be happy to try it out. How many cases do you have that you want to convert?

[LR1955]

I wonder if a bushing die, without a bushing, would start the neck down? Then add the bushing, or use the regular fl die for the second step? If I had some I'd be happy to try it out. How many cases do you have that you want to convert?

204:

I tried this technique and it didn't work for some reason. It has been years since we had to use this process to get something for our Grendels but I think it folded the necks over or did some sort of damage that we couldn't repair.

Worth a try again but not for me. Been through this process several thousand times and can live without it now that I can buy Grendel brass. Even the cheap PPU brass is better than anything a guy will make out of 7.62 X 39 brass.

Forgot to add, once fireformed, it does pay to inside ream to get out the doughnut that will form in the sized down 7.62 X 39 brass.

LR1955

[204 AR]

Good info. I've had great luck with case life with the Hdy brass, getting 12+ loads from it, and 100 rds of Lapua is going strong in the 243 lbc. I wouldn't mind some cheap brass for low powered plinker loads, as I have a feeling my girls will be doing a lot of practice this summer as one of them wants to deer hunt for the first time this fall. I'm definitely always on the look out for good deals.

[mongoosesnipe]

best i can figure a bushing die without the bushing wouldn't size the neck at all and in the case of 7.62 to grendel other than the neck there isn't much sizing to be done, try bring ing the die down a 1/4 turn at a time.....

also did you aneal this brass before you started if so you may have over annealed and made the brass to soft in which case it wouldn't be usable anyway

[hcnfan@yahoo.com]

Problem is resolved. The 7.62x39 cases had not been resized for 7.62x39. As soon as I resized them for 7.62x39, they started working in the 6.5 Gren resizing die. Thanks for all the feedback.