What powder for 123gr sst

[6.5 Grendel]

Okay, I have dies and 500 123gr sst's on the way. I have been searching here and most like CFE 223 or Leverevelotion. My barrel is a 20" / 1:8 BHW .264LBC. Can any one shooting this barrel give me real world velocity I can expect? Thinking I will start a ladder of 28.5, 29, 29.3, 29.6, 29.9, 30.1, 30.3, ect in .2 increments up to 32. Look ok to you guys?

[A.D.D. AR]

6.5 Grendel-
sounds about right.
CFE223 will be more forgiving, but you could also use TAC, BLC2, XBR8208 , AA2520, or AR Comp. As far as velocity, I don't have a BHW barrel. The rifling is a little different so you might want
to do a search on here and see what other guys with BHW barrels got.
Good luck with your load workups.
-mike

[Doon]

I'm using 31.5 gn of cfe-223 in a 20" lbc 1-8 twist howa barrel and it shoots under 1/2 moa in a bolt gun. not sure about velocity but should be around 2600 give or take.

[NugginFutz]

Shooting CFE223 under 123 Amax pills, the following velocities were seen in my two BHW 264 LBC barrels:

[SIZE="3"]
Charge	29.4	29.7	30	30.3	30.6	30.9	31.2	31.5

18" Avg	2334	2372	2415	2425	2428	2458	2489	2509

22" Avg	2457	2490	2531	2530	2565	2587	2617	2629

Diff	123	118	116	105	136	129	128	120[/SIZE]

I saw pressure signs and velocities began to fall off above 31.5.

Temps were 81'F when the 18" BHW was chronographed, and 75'F for the 22" barrel.

The 123 SST and Amax have very similar velocities in these barrels, so this should give you a fair idea.

[Jakal]

You might get 2 powders to try as not everyone can get CFE223 to shoot good. Example, my 20" Lilja barrel shoots CFE and SST's just fine, but my 20" Bartlein won't throw a decent group with CFE but AR-Comp shoots lights out.

[LRRPF52]

One thing I noticed about the BHW rifling is that the lands are more shallow, so I suspect that it doesn't build pressure as fast as a more conventionally rifled barrel.

From a reloading standpoint, that would make me lean towards looking at just a tad faster powders for the selected bullet.

CFE223 builds pressure slowly in the Grendel. It's almost to the point that you can't get enough in the case, but it still generates some of the best speeds.

With the BHW rifling, I would look for at least one extruded powder like 8208XBR, and ball powder like CFE223. There's a lot of load data in the 6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks to reference, with many 20" velocities.

You might also look at TAC and Reloader 15.

[6.5 Grendel]

Good point LRRPF52 thanks also good info Nugg

[NugginFutz]

One thing I noticed about the BHW rifling is that the lands are more shallow, so I suspect that it doesn't build pressure as fast as a more conventionally rifled barrel.

From a reloading standpoint, that would make me lean towards looking at just a tad faster powders for the selected bullet.

CFE223 builds pressure slowly in the Grendel. It's almost to the point that you can't get enough in the case, but it still generates some of the best speeds.

With the BHW rifling, I would look for at least one extruded powder like 8208XBR, and ball powder like CFE223. There's a lot of load data in the 6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks to reference, with many 20" velocities.

You might also look at TAC and Reloader 15.

In point of fact, I do prefer IMR8208XBR for this pill and barrel(s) combination, as it does offer a more accurate result.

As far as the shallowness of the "lands" is concerned: my understanding is the polygonal profile of these barrels results in a reduced engraving force, which allows both a better seal and lower friction/resistance. Greg, a pro staffer from BHW, has said that these barrels consistently deliver higher velocities per inch of barrel than most others. While I had not heard any of this prior to selecting them for my first 6.5 AR, my experiences with their barrels tend to support his statement.

LRRPF - IIRC, you and Joe have or had access to pressure trace equipment. I think it would be quite interesting to see how the pressure curves compare between the Polygonal and the traditional Enfield Rifling barrels. What do you think? Best case, we could get some real world data on why the BHW's do (or don't) run a bit faster. Worst case, we get to see some additional pressure data for a given set of loads.

I suspect the bullet accelerates more quickly, with less of an initial pressure spike. This would also tend to result in lower peak pressure, as the volume is expanding more quickly than traditional rifling would allow. An interesting set of variables to consider. I wonder if Quickload allows one to tune Engraving Force and Pressure Seal efficiency...

My apologies if this thread is getting too far afield...

[1911man]

I can confirm what others are saying. My 18" BHW 1x9 twist barrel prefers XBR and TAC over CFE as far as accuracy goes. 28.3 grains of XBR and a 120 smk shoots around 1/2 moa and 2470 fps on average. The most accurate load I have found with CFE is 32.1 grains with a 123 amax. It shoots five shots at 1moa and averages 2525 fps out of my gun .

[m796rider]

I'm using 31.5 gn of cfe-223 in a 20" lbc 1-8 twist howa barrel and it shoots under 1/2 moa in a bolt gun. not sure about velocity but should be around 2600 give or take.

What's your COAL?

[m796rider]

So I currently see about 2400fps shooting Hornady 123gr SST factory loads out of my 15.5" AA 1/8 twist stainless barrel. Do you guys think I could get to 2450fps handloading the 123gr SSTs with either 8208 or CFE223? I have plenty of both...

Thanks.

[LRRPF52]

CFE223 yes, 8202 maybe not.

In my 16" AA/Shaw pipe, I get 2550fps with max loads of CFE223 under 123gr AMAX and SST. Factory 123gr AMAX averages 2456fps for me.

CFE223 123gr AMAX 2.272-2.277" COL (I recommend using 2.260" max)
31.1gr 2489
31.4gr 2520
31.7gr 2532
32.0gr 2572

From my 17.6" Lilja
123gr SST CFE223 31.2gr

2439
2445
2421

[m796rider]

CFE223 yes, 8202 maybe not.

In my 16" AA/Shaw pipe, I get 2550fps with max loads of CFE223 under 123gr AMAX and SST. Factory 123gr AMAX averages 2456fps for me.

CFE223 123gr AMAX 2.272-2.277" COL (I recommend using 2.260" max)
31.1gr 2489
31.4gr 2520
31.7gr 2532
32.0gr 2572

From my 17.6" Lilja
123gr SST CFE223 31.2gr

2439
2445
2421

Thanks LRRPF52, great info as always. Is your 32.0gr CFE223 load accurate in your rifle?

I typically load to 2.268-2.270" COAL, which is mag-length compatible with all my Grendel mags. Any reason you recommend limiting to 2.260"?

[LRRPF52]

I've never mass-produced the 32.0gr load. That was just from ladder-testing to see the actual speeds.

31.2gr has been accurate for me, enough to clean Know Your Limits plate racks at 500yds, where the final small plate is only 1 MOA in diameter (5").

As long as you know your chamber, and aren't spiking the start pressure, load to the COL that works for you, but be advised that longer COL's will often cause higher peak pressure.

I noticed with the 129gr ABLR that I had much more stable pressure increase with a shorter COL of 2.271", vs. 2.284". There's nothing wrong with compressing the load.

[6.5 Grendel]

Good info guys
Thanks