6.5 gap saum

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

I sent the following E-mail to Jason Hornady, V.P. Sales & Marketing:

"Dear Mr. Hornady:

There's an outstanding short-action candidate-cartridge in the wings waiting to join other 21st Century-designed 6.5mm cartridges brought to life and made popular by the Hornady headstamp, the 6.5mm Grendel and the 6.5mm Creedmoor. Enter: The 6.5mm SAUM.

Comparative Muzzle Velocity/Energy values (24" barrels):

6.5mm Grendel, 123-grain A-MAX (BC - 0.510), 2580 fps/1818 ft-lbs;
6.5mm Creedmoor, 140-grain A-MAX (BC - 0.585), 2710 fps/2283 ft-lbs;
6.5mm SAUM, 140-grain A-MAX (BC - 0.585), 3180 fps (*) /3143 ft-lbs.
* http://forum.snipershide.info/showth...=1#post2896126

Comparative Downrange Velocity/Energy Values (24" barrels):

7mm Remington Magum Hornady 139-gr InterLock SP American Whitetail (BC - 0.392)
Muzzle . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 500 yards . . . . . . . . . . .1000 yards
3150 fps/3062 ft-lbs - 2027 fps/1269 ft-lbs - 1226 fps/464 ft-lbs

6.5mm SAUM with Hornady 140-gr A-MAX (BC - 0.585)
Muzzle . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 500 yards . . . . . . . . . . .1000 yards
3180 fps/3143 ft-lbs - 2392 fps/1778 ft-lbs - 1732 fps/932 ft-lbs

Twice the retained Kinetic Energy of the highly-popular 7mm Remington Magnum, at 1000 yards, with a half-inch shorter C.O.L. to partner with the shorter, lighter .308 Winchester-length actions.

It's that good --- and, I submit, deserving of the Hornady headstamp."

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And, some 6.5mm SAUM pics for our Forum:

[LRRPF52]

There is factory ammo for it too from Copper Creek. http://coppercreekammo.com/index.php...index&cPath=50

$289.99 for 50 rounds

$145 for 50 pieces of brass

[Drillboss]

What are your thoughts on this cartridge versus a 270 WSM? A quick look at Hodgdon's data looks like it's in the same ballpark.

[bwaites]

I shoot a 7mm WSM, using Hodgen H1000, and I have been very skeptical about the barrel life that people have been claiming with the SAUM. The cartridges themselves are very similar in size, and my experience with the 7 WSM is that barrels last 1000-1500 rounds before losing significant accuracy. Proponents of the SAUM are saying much longer, and I have been trying to figure out how that is possible. Theoretically, using similar powder chargers, driving similar bullets, the smaller diameter 6.5 should burn out the throat even faster. What I suspect, though, is that the lighter weight bullets are mitigating that, and so they see longer barrel life. That, of course, is only a theory, but its the only one I've been able to come up with!

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

I today received a reply from Jason Hornady:

"Subject: A case for the Hornady 6.5mm SAUM

"Thanks for the email . . . We have discussed something similar, no promises."

NOTE: Aware of Copper Creek's excellent factory-loaded 6.5mm SAUM, at a pricey $5.80/round, I intentionally referenced the popular "7mm Remington Magnum Hornady 139-gr InterLock SP American Whitetail," because of its reasonable $1.15/round street price (http://ammoseek.com/ammo/7mm-remington-magnum) (Scroll down the list to Outdoor Limited - Hornady 7mm Rem Mag American Whitetail 139 gr InterLock).

I'm hoping there's someone at Hornady who sees the 6.5mm SAUM for what it is: The short-action answer to the 3.340"-long .26 Nosler.

[kmon]

I shoot a 7mm WSM, using Hodgen H1000, and I have been very skeptical about the barrel life that people have been claiming with the SAUM. The cartridges themselves are very similar in size, and my experience with the 7 WSM is that barrels last 1000-1500 rounds before losing significant accuracy. Proponents of the SAUM are saying much longer, and I have been trying to figure out how that is possible. Theoretically, using similar powder chargers, driving similar bullets, the smaller diameter 6.5 should burn out the throat even faster. What I suspect, though, is that the lighter weight bullets are mitigating that, and so they see longer barrel life. That, of course, is only a theory, but its the only one I've been able to come up with!

Similar thoughts, I shoot a 6.5-284, 264 Win Mag and 270WSM. Cannot say that I expect the barrel life being claimed from any of them that is being reported with the 6.5 SAUM. No doubt there are others that know more than I about such but there are no free lunches. When I worked up a load for the 264 with 130 gr bullets and H1000 I was getting pressure enough for some bright marks on the brass to reach 3200fps and sticky bolt lift at 3250. Now I am sure they are using a better quality barrel and minimum chamber size for those numbers than I have on my 264 which still has a factory 24 inch barrel.

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

On barrel life:

(http://snipershide.scout.com/forums/...65517992?s=541)

On care and feeding:

(http://forum.snipershide.info/showth...=1#post2542054)

[BluntForceTrauma]

Love the concept, following objective performance verification with interest. As Bill notes, usually when performance exceeds known parameters and the conventional laws of physics and metallurgy, a healthy dose of wait-and-see is called for.

But I always root for the success of efficient 6.5mm cartridges, so if the .26 Nosler deserves to come to market, this cartridge deserves a place in the market 10 times over.

[adamjp]

Well, I have built a 6.5 SAUM 4S using the GAP 298 reamer.

130gn Bergers can be seated into the lands with a standard Remington magazine box (which indicates excellent reamer design). The velocity range of 3250 fps is easy to achieve using the Norma Brass. Once Remington pulls their finger out and makes 7mm SUAM brass again I will be buying a couple of hundred for my two SAUMs.

Barrel life? Well, as a hunting rifle I just don't care. I don't reasonably expect 3000+ rounds out of the 3 groove Lilja, but I do expect 1500 before it can't put three into 6in at 700m. At 100 rounds per year, that is quite a bit of shooting.

I topped my rifle with a 3.5-18 Swarovski Z5 with the BRH reticule, far better glass than those fat semi-tacticool LRH scopes from Bushnell. The whole rifle weighs 7lb flat ready to fill with three cartridges and go hunting.

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

Well, I have built a 6.5 SAUM 4S using the GAP 298 reamer.

130gn Bergers can be seated into the lands with a standard Remington magazine box (which indicates excellent reamer design). The velocity range of 3250 fps is easy to achieve using the Norma Brass. Once Remington pulls their finger out and makes 7mm SUAM brass again I will be buying a couple of hundred for my two SAUMs.

Barrel life? Well, as a hunting rifle I just don't care. I don't reasonably expect 3000+ rounds out of the 3 groove Lilja, but I do expect 1500 before it can't put three into 6in at 700m. At 100 rounds per year, that is quite a bit of shooting.

I topped my rifle with a 3.5-18 Swarovski Z5 with the BRH reticule, far better glass than those fat semi-tacticool LRH scopes from Bushnell. The whole rifle weighs 7lb flat ready to fill with three cartridges and go hunting.

Hi adamjp,

What's the barrel length on your 6.5 SAUM?

A "neighbor" of yours is reporting pretty fair results, using a 22" barrel on his 6.5 SAUM (http://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.n...152/#post73389).

[LRRPF52]

The main approach George intended to use was to keep the pressures as low as possible, and not push them to the maximum potential of the cartridge in order to save barrel life.

The idea is that if you stay between 55,000-58,000psi, and not got to magnum pressures like 62,000-65,000psi, the throat will not get plasma-cut as powder kernels convert to hot gas in the pressure containment vessel.

They could push the 130gr VLD much faster, but chose to leave that last 100-200fps of performance alone, since they achieved the flat trajectory they wanted with H1000. Geogre also maintained the throats of one of his rifles.

The example I handled at SHOT was truly a rifleman's rifle, extremely light, but still substantial feeling and magnificently balanced.

[adamjp]

I am running a 25.3in barrel. I was aiming for 26in but to get it into the stock inlet the barrel had to be cut shorter at the chamber end. it is longer than I normally like, but this rifle is all about velocity and more barrel will equal more velocity with this cartridge. It is not a rifle that I will reach for when I go after Sambar later this year.

A 22in barrel would certainly crack but his velocities are believable.

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

Now, it's been well-established that a fine-tuned AR chambered for the 6.5mm Grendel represents a precision shooting combo --- even at 1,000 yards ---

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1250867__ARCHIVED_THREAD____Interdasting__Alexander_Arms_relinquishes_6_5_Grendel_trademark.html&page=3#i30879121

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1250867__ARCHIVED_THREAD____Interdasting__Alexander_Arms_relinquishes_6_5_Grendel_trademark.html&page=3#i30888773

And, that a fine-tuned Bolt Gun, chambered for the hot 6.5mm SAUM, is equally impressive at 1,000 yards ---


6.5mm SAUM, 5 shots, at 1,000 yards

Now, what if we were to introduce the big butt (0.534" case rim diameter) 6.5mm SAUM cartridge to a high-tech AR-10 platform, replete with a lightweight, carbon-wrapped barrel (http://proofresearch.com/in-the-news...-test-article/) and a beefy (early Portuguese- /modern SR-25-style) AR-10 Bolt ---



I dare state that the results would be impressive, as well ---



I do hope the good guys at Hornady are looking-in.

[LRRPF52]

There are some substantial engineering challenges with getting a .500" base or larger cartridge to work in the existing AR10 frame profile, particularly with regard to magazine articulation with the feed ramps and the diameters of the system. Notice that both ArmaLite and DPMS discontinued the SAUM factory AR10's and LR series rifles in those cartridges.

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

There are some substantial engineering challenges with getting a .500" base or larger cartridge to work in the existing AR10 frame profile, particularly with regard to magazine articulation with the feed ramps and the diameters of the system. Notice that both ArmaLite and DPMS discontinued the SAUM factory AR10's and LR series rifles in those cartridges.

Re, "There are some substantial engineering challenges with getting a .500" base or larger cartridge to work in the existing AR10 frame profile, . . .", I think it's fair to state that Clint Walker, Vice President, NEMO Arms heartily agrees (http://nemoarms.com/nemo-omen-300-win-mag-review/).

And, back in the early - mid-2000s, SSK Industries offered a .300 Winchester Short Magnum (WSM) AR-10.

My own (learning) experience was quite rewarding ---






NOTE: The 25", in "the standard 25" gas tube" and "a regulated 25" gas delivery system," in the above Page, are typographical errors: Should read "15"."



The "fat lady" executing a graceful exit through the slightly-widened ASA .308 ejection port --- http://i60.tinypic.com/29f59gh.jpg


If a major ammunition manufacturer saw the light on the 6.5mm SAUM, and offered a price comparable to the 7mm Remington Magnum, I think we'd see a NEMO OMEN 6.5mm SAUM --- and considering that we're well into the 21st Century, where Bullpups are in, a 6.5mm SAUM Bullpup with sub-MOA capability would be a hit !